Thought I would start Monday with a new thread.
Nothing much to repost here. I have an appointment in Jan with a new Dr to do the c-section. And have also found out that she wants to follow us in the high risk clinic. So this is reassuring. It means more appointments but we will have an US at each.
I hope everyone else is doing well.
Thoughts and prayers to all.

glad to hear all that Natalie.

i'm freaking out over here. i just hit my second trimester and it doesn't feel like a safe place to be. now even more than ever i'm just waiting for the baby to die, or waiting to find out it already did. i really want the hospital to agree to do another scan, to stop me from freaking out too much, but truth be told a few days later and i'll just be back here again anyway :(

i hate being like this. i want to enjoy being pregnant but it just seems like an impossibly narrow path between two impossibly deep ravines, when i'm already suffering from vertigo. all i can do is cling on and keep trying to inch forward and hope i don't fall.

B, I'm sorry you're struggling. Can you rent a doppler, and would that help? Keep reminding yourself that you don't have to enjoy pregnancy. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. You're doing fine.

Natalie, I'm sorry I don't remember how far along you are...does that mean you're delivering in January, or just that you're meeting the right doctor? That's great you're feeling taken care of.

Not much to report here. I've decided to take some positive steps forward instead of just "trying" and being destroyed that this is taking so much longer than it ever has before. I was avoiding calling my doctor because that would mean admitting that something might not be right (and in my head diving into a cascade of interventions that I'd like to avoid). But....something might not be right. Pretending isn't going to make it go away. So I'm going to call my OB's office in just a few minutes and request an appointment. I know it hasn't been overly long since we've being ttcing, and our timing hasn't been fantastic, but still - this is our 6th cycle and with both previous pregnancies we conceived on cycle 2. And my last two periods have been strange, very heavy, cycles 5 days longer than average, lots of twinges. Anyway, we'll see. My OB is great. I'm worried that something isn't working right, but I know she'll help me through whatever it is.

I also went to acupuncture on Saturday, and plan to start going regularly. I'm lucky to live in a city with affordable community acupuncture. Going was a bit rough - the last time I was there was three years ago, when I was heavily pregnant with my son, trying to jumpstart labor. And the clinic is literally across the street from the funeral home where we had Pearl cremated. But I was glad I took that step, it felt positive and proactive. I told my story, and told them that I was looking for healing and fertility. As with calling my OB, I figure it can't hurt.

I haven't been angry at my body - Pearl died of a cord accident and since the moment we knew the cause, it just felt so random and tragic and not the kind of thing that can be blamed on anything or anyone. However, just because I haven't been angry doesn't mean I haven't been disconnected. I've been disconnected from my body in a serious way. While having acupuncture, it hit me - my body didn't kill her, but it also didn't save her. I had a powerful sense of forgiveness, and of knowing that my body would have saved her if it could have. That was the only part of the treatment where I cried - when I was having a little conversation with my body in my head. When she died, I missed her on such an intense, molecular level. I guess it makes sense that I have to forgive my body on a molecular level, too. And that my heart isn't the only part of me that's still sad.

M I am so sorry. I hope you will find some help in this OB appt. Please keep us posted.
B- I agree- a doppler might help ease your fears

Cd 23.. no OV.

i've thought about getting a doppler but seeing as my only experience of them was my midwife failing to find a heartbeat that wasn't there i think it would cause more stress than anything. Also I can't imagine ever being able to hear anything, and even if i did i'd be terrified i was just picking up my own heartbeat. honestly i think that the people who can listen themselves are so, so brave.

oh M. good luck with the OB. you have so much going on. if there is something wrong i hope it's small and easily fixed.

thinking of you and everyone else x

leslie i o'd on day 26 the month i got pregnant so there is still hope x

I second what M said, B, just remember that you don't have to enjoy pregnancy. You just have to keep going, and you are doing great with that. I have a little doppler, I always found it very comforting, but then again I have always heard a heartbeat with it, so I get what you are saying.

Natalie, I am glad you were able to get the appointment with the new doc, I hope he/she is more supportive. And am glad you will be getting frequent US, they really are helpful in easing your mind.

I'm so sorry M. I wish there was something I could do to make things happen faster for you. I hope the acupuncture helps, and I hope your OB helps too.

Hang in there Leslie. Not that this matters to you right now, but I think it's normal for your first few cycles to be wierd.

AFM, welp, after much debating we decided to go for it, so I am in the 2WW. I'm feeling a little conflicted about it, but finally decided DH is right, if we're gonna continue to try for a second child, we just need to get back on the horse and do it. I'm just scared. But I don't want to be so scared of the bad things that I miss out on the good, you know? Easier said than done.

Thinking of you all. xoxoxo

hi mamas,

B, I hear you on nerves and the doppler. My stepsister used one in her pregnancy (her 7th pregnancy, her first living child) and it was incredibly reassuring for you. For me, it always made me nervous, even though we COULD always find the hb with it, even.

Leslie, I'm holding hope for you that you can ov late and get pregnant this cycle. Let us know what the OB says this week.

M - we have a community acupuncture clinic very near our house as well. I've been going pretty regularly the last month or so. My only complaint is that there always seems to be a VERY pregnant woman in there at the same time as me. (My acupuncturist even apologized today, she was like "What is it with all these pregnant women coming in at the same time as you!?! Don't they get my psychic memos to stay away from you!?" And then she cracked a joke, asking me if I wanted her to poke them extra hard with the needles...) It doesn't bother me too much, being there with all them, surprisingly. I was worried about going back too, as I also went there between weeks 39 and 41 of my last pregnancy trying to jumpstart labor. The first time was hard, and I do have occasional flashbacks, but overall, I love being there enough, and I had been going long enough prior to getting pregnant then as well that I associate the clinic with a lot more than just my pregnancy with Otis.

AFM - My cycle is still so screwed up I didn't even get half a chance to be stuck in the 2ww. I had positive OPKs for three days last week (Mon-Tues-Weds) and then started bleeding Saturday. I don't think there is even such a thing as a four day luteal phase so I think I didn't ovulate when I had the LH surge. All in all it was a 17 day cycle, a little better than my last one which was 14. My OB is convinced it's still my body trying to sort out hormones after delivery (13 weeks ago yesterday) and that I shouldn't be worried, and should give it another month before we look at hormone panels or tests or anything. So, I'm just practicing patience. I'm bad at patience, have I mentioned that? I will still temp and do OPKs this month, hopefully getting a sense of ovulation at some point, and hopefully also having more than 17 days between periods, ffs. I'm going for acupuncture twice a week and taking vitex and some herbs she recommended. Fingers crossed things get sorted soon.

Geez, I can't think straight. B, in that first paragraph, I should have said it was reassuring for HER. Duh.

Just wanted to say thank you so very much for the thoughts- and hearing about day 26 ov is a good thing- thank you!
S- how often do you go to acupuncture? I am starting to think about it....
K- fingers crossed...

B, I picked one up on ebay when I was pregnant with Freddie. I don't know why, I just 'wanted' one, I felt so unsure about him. Nothing can be as bad as having to go days without knowing that someone is still alive in there. I got a heartbeat reasonably reliably from about 17 weeks even though it was small and cheap.

B, I agree with you about the doppler, since I also associate them with that soul-crushing silence. This pregnancy my OB told me not to get one because they can be difficult to use and it would do my head in - instead he encouraged me to present myself at the labour ward any time of the day or night and make them do it for me. Just knowing I was "allowed" to be a "special patient" (ie, neurotic) turned out to be enough - I never actually did that, but held very tight to the knowledge that I could.

The weeks you are going through now are definitely the hardest - while you can't help but be fully invested in the pregnancy, your symptoms are going away, check-ups are weeks apart and there's no way for you to know if everything is OK. You are convinced the universe is silently plotting to make a fool of you - if you let yourself believe in a happy ending, it will turn out bub stopped growing several weeks back. Even the morphology scan will probably only give you peace of mind for half a day. When I made it to 20 weeks I was delighted - because from now on he'd be a stillbirth and that was the best outcome I figured I could expect!

Things got so much easier around 26 weeks. That's when I could finally feel obvious kicking every day - objective proof that I *was* neurotic and he was, in fact, alive. Plus, I knew he could survive outside the womb, and suddenly the doctors were more interested in doing extra checks.

Small comfort to you now, probably - but this is the part where you can only put your head down and plough on - and it won't be this awful the whole time, I promise.

Leslie, my acupuncturist has me in there twice a week, at least until we get the hormones balanced. I'm lucky in that it's incredibly affordable (in fact, she's been donating her services since Otis died...)

Natalie- Good news to hear that the new doctor wants to follow your pregnancy more closely.

B- I agree with the others, you just have to get through it. Enjoying pregnancy seems like an idea that is impossible after a loss.

M- I think there is something emotionally healing about acupuncture. Maybe it clears the mind for awhile to make space for other things like realizing that you need to forgive your body for what happened to Pearl. That is very healing.

Leslie- According to my dates and from the scan I just had, I ovulated at Day 21. I figured I did since I was getting negative tests until a week after my period should have showed up. Late OV is not necessarily a recipe for failure.

Keely- Keeping my fingers crossed.

Sarah N- I know it is hard to find the patience amongst the grief and anxiety to get pregnant again. Hopefully acupuncture will help with the physical and the emotional aspects of this roller coaster.

AFM- I had an early scan today (bless my OB) and we saw something in there. A little black hole that might grow up one day to be a take home baby. The radiologist who did the scan was the one who did all the scans with George and she said, "I remember you both and your son. I'm sorry" and then I started crying.
I'm probably a week behind what my dates would suggest but I kind of already figured that. But just to be sure she had my hormone levels drawn and will call me and let me know if they are what they should be.
We also talked about renting a doppler, oddly enough since this is the topic at hand here, and she felt great about it. Had we had one with George and caught his rapid heart rate early enough he would be alive right now. So yeah, I am all about dopplers.

Natalie: I'm glad to hear that your consultant will be following your pregnancy more closely and I hope you get some comfort and reassurance from the more frequent scans.
B: As you know, the second trimester is not a particularly happy place for me either and I will be relieved to reach the other side (hopefully still pregnant). I do hope you can manage to get the extra scan at the hospital. I've also been debating purchasing a doppler but I'm not decided quite yet. I can understand your reservations.
M: My heart goes out to you. In my first two pregnancies I fell on the first cycle but this current pregnancy seemed to take an age. I have no idea why. I also went for fertility investigations on the basis that it couldn't hurt. I hope that your OB will be able to put your mind at rest a little. I always felt that, if there was a reason why I couldn't fall pregnant, I would rather know.
I'm glad that you had that moment during your acupuncture session. Your description made me cry.
Leslie: I hope that everything straightens itself out soon and glad you have found some reassurance here. From the previous posts, it sounds as though late ovulation isn't necessarily a bad thing!
Keely: I have my fingers crossed for you and you're right, it is easier said than done. I hope you can still find some of the good things.
Sarah N.: I'm not great at being patient either. I hope that the acupuncture and the herbs between them sort something out. Preferably something slightly longer than 17 days. I hope your OB is right and that your body is just trying to sort itself out after your pregnancy with Otis.
Brianna: I like the sound of your OB! So glad you had the early scan. Heartbreaking but strangely lovely that the radiologist remembered you, L and George. I cried through my early scans too.
afm: 18 weeks. Inching forward one day at a time and hoping to make it to 24 weeks. I know that is no guarantee of anything but it will be the longest pregnancy I've ever had if I get that far.

well, i called the hospital today and cried at them. i didn't mean to. but they've agreed that if i go in tomorrow at noon, i can go to the end of the list and get a quick scan to make sure everything is ok.

the only problem with this is that it means i don't know when to get D to come down. i'm hoping that either when i arrive they can give me a better idea, or that when i'm getting close they can give me a nod so i can call and get him to come. his work are quite flexible about this kind of thing - he can take his lunchtime pretty much whenever so he can use that for it - but i'm fairly sure they won't let him come and sit for potentially hours on end. i don't mind waiting on my own but i'm not going for a scan without him.

of course, when i put the phone down i had a panic attack that just arranging this had killed the baby, but i'm trying to stop thinking about that.

i talked to D before about dopplers. he thinks the same as me, that for me they would cause 1000x more stress than they would ever relieve. and he says he can't cope with any more stress than he is already under. funny, i hadn't even noticed that he was - and he didn't tell me in a guilt-inducing way, just matter of fact. which of course made me feel even more guilty for not realising he was finding this hard too :(

anon: 'You are convinced the universe is silently plotting to make a fool of you - if you let yourself believe in a happy ending, it will turn out bub stopped growing several weeks back.' are you a mind reader????? that's exactly it. in fact your entire post just filled me with relief that someone else gets it quite so completely. thank you so much.

i'm too exhausted today to reply to everyone but i read all the updates and i'm thinking of you all and sending the relevant vibes to each and every one of you :) x

Anon, I get exactly what you mean about feeling like Fate's fool. The one year anniversary of losing our daughter is the day after Christmas (really, isn't that enough of a cosmic kick in the ass-- Merry Christmas, you pathetic sad sacks!!). The kicker is that my sister in law is due with a baby girl any time now. So, hey, we get to ooh and ahh over her baby Christmas Day!! Lucky me. Couple that with Christmas cards of newly born babies... and I feel like hiding under my blankets until it is all over.

I went to a new doctor today to get an annual exam and talk about my concerns that my hormones may be off because my cycle is several days shorter than it was before. She basically brushed me off. So, yet again, I walk out of a doctors office feeling totally dismissed and misunderstood. Off to find a new doctor.

Damn, I am so depressed. This is the first month of us "trying again." In my heart, I am praying for a Christmas miracle. Part of me thinks that we truly deserve it. The other part of me yells: "Fool!!! Fool!!! Fool!! Nothing ever comes easy for you, you fool!!!" The past year has just been one massive bundle of disappointment so why should the future be anything different??

Ugh. Wake me up after New Years.....

Oh, and sorry for the huge pity party. Other than my husband, nobody else wants to hear it.

steph every single week i am amazed - AMAZED - that we haven't won the lottery. not necessarily the jackpot; just a couple of grand would do - not to make up for losing our baby, but.... just to redress the balance a little?

the world owes us all a lot, and yet it doesn't seem to pay out very often. it makes me surprisingly angry.

i hope you got your miracle and i hope you find an understanding doctor x

I am so on board with feeling like Fate's Fool, too...

Not feeling like you are being listened to by your doctor just sucks. I found a good one and even though it is going to be super inconvenient with this pregnancy to continue seeing her I will absolutely not switch doctors. I hope that you find one that you feel confident in.

I feel so exquisitely damaged right now. We just used the doppler to listen to the babe and after 5 min of hunting around we found it, and it's fine, but as soon as I heard the heartbeat I bawled. I just get so worried and feel so certain that s/he's died that I have no faith in myself or my body or this baby.

Anyway - I just feel like a basket case.

B - if the option is running in for scans when your panic is high or a doppler to use once a week, I'd vote doppler, but maybe not until later when the hb is easier to find.

I just needed to be on Glow tonight where my sense of lunacy is understood.

Just wanted to let you know I'm reading and thinking of you all.

I felt like a basket case for most of my pregnancy and I'm sure no one other than you and my other PAL friends had any idea how hard it was. I'm even sure that my DH even really understands just how stressful it was every minute of every day. Just wanted to say hang in there to everyone and for those of you TTC, I hope this is your month.

Wishing a gentle Christmas to everyone.

Maddie x

Thanks for calling in Maddie, I've been wondering how you're getting on.

I know my husband tries to understand but he really doesn't. He said last night that although losing the baby last year was horrible, the thought that he was losing me was worse. I wish it was different but that's just the way it is for us. It makes me sad.

Anyway, on a happier note, I just wanted to let you know that I went to the maternity assessment unit today and they did a really long and detailed scan and gave us loads of pictures - I think ten in total! (I've got a strip with 4 and I think the strip D took had six). The midwife was incredibly reassuring and said that I can phone them any time I'm worried and speak to them and if necessary I can go in for a scan. Hopefully knowing I've got that option if necessary will mean that I don't need to take it up, but at least I know that if my midwife goes on leave again I have people to call. I've heard so many bad reports of the hospital I'm booked into but honestly I've got nothing but praise for them - the staff have all been extremely understanding of how hard it is for me and haven't ever made me feel neurotic.

I'm glad you found the heartbeat Sarah. You're not a lunatic; I think this is a pretty normal way to react to our own circumstances.

Oh, B and Sarah, I am so glad you both got reassurance. Those early days before you can feel movement are just so hard. I am so sorry that this can't be easier.

I have no vote on the Doppler because it did not work for me and thus made me crazy with worry, but if it had (as it does for so many people) it would have made that time so much easier.

M, I am so glad you had a good experience with the acupuncture. I am sorry that you are not going to your OB with happier news but I am really, really glad to hear that you are in such good hands.

Catherine, I am thinking of you. I am at about the same point in my pregnancy and I also lost my son at 22 weeks, so yeah, this is a time for holding our breath and hoping, I guess.

As for me: it's a girl. We are thrilled, completely thrilled. Lots of complicated reasons for why we preferred a girl this time but it was a relief, an absolute relief. We would have been thrilled with a boy, too, but it would have been more complicated emotionally.

My cervix and placenta also looked good -- cervix still long, placenta not covering the cervix.

The scan was really emotional, though. My husband was late because he had to take our daughter to daycare, so I went in alone and had an absolutely horrific encounter with protesters outside the hospital that left me sobbing when I went into the appointment. And we saw the perinatologist we don't like, the one we saw in the hospital, but this time my husband spoke up to her while I was in the bathroom, telling her our history, letting her know that she was the doctor we saw before (she did not have any of those records on me), and letting her know that her presence was upsetting to both of us. She was much more gentle with me afterward, and booked me for another scan in three weeks to check my cervix again.

Oh Beth I'm sorry to hear it was all so stressful for you, but so so glad to hear that the perinatologist was kinder to you after your husband spoke to her (how terrible that he had to, though).

And a girl sounds just lovely x

hi ladies,
i look forward to this post all week and while i dont reply individually i have read them all thoroughly and some possibly more than once - i love this place, you guys are my friends, weird!

so i am 3 days late, feeling mildly crampy, i didnt know i was pg last time until 6 weeks so have no idea of early symptoms, two bfn, i know its too early to test but ive never been good at self restraint - i go from being 100% certain that i am pregnant and then the complete opposite, all in the space of one millisecond, i try not to be so full of self pity but i kinda think, dont count yourself as one of the lucky ones you are not you idiot and like you steph i have the word FOOL FOOL FOOL ringing around in my head

ugh i hate this shit

- and please excuse this posting, it has very little in the way of punctuation etc but i just couldnt be bothered, i'm sure you'll understand

good luck ladies x

I'm with Oct2010, read all the posts even though I don't respond individually. I fear I will leave someone out. But I also enjoy this place and like hearing of everyone's status, good or bad. Wishing great things and peace to you all.

AFM - I'm 10 weeks and nervous as can be. The past few weeks have been nothing but sickness, so now when I don't feel sick I'm worried. I still have back pain and muscles twitches, my chest is achy and growing. So just every little thing makes me wonder if it is good or bad. I had a lady at church figure me out. Crazy sixth sense of hers. She asked my mom at a party, but she'll keep my secret. I think we'll tell our grandparents, aunts/uncles and cousins by Christmas. Our next appt and nuchal scan is Dec 28th. It cannot come fast enough for me. I hope to keep things quiet at work and church until then. There are a few friends I would like to tell next weekend. Just taking it one day at a time.

Beth, a girl!! Great news. I'm so happy that you're all thrilled. Also sorry that the appointment was hard, of course. But mostly I'm just so happy that everything looks good with your second girl. Hang in there, you're doing great.

oct2010, I know that feeling all too well! 100% sure I'm pregnant, 100% sure I'm not. It's crazy-making.

Sorry for all the nerves in general, especially for those of you who are approaching dates of previous losses.

I'm off to my second acupuncture visit. Perhaps I'm close to ovulating? Maybe it will help? Part of me feels stupid for doing acupuncture and seeing my OB without also doing OPKs or charting or something else to really know what's happening and if/when I'm ovulating. The other part of me says, nah, take it one step at a time. I can add more tools to my arsenal next month.

Like others I always read these posts but I don't write much. I think of you all often though, especially Sarah N. Something about the story of your gorgeous Otis rips my heart out, maybe because like you our baby was big and full term, and maybe it's the brain damage element of Otis' story, because our Salome acquired brain damage through her birth and then afterwards as well.... I dunno. Anyway, I'm thinking of you all.

Here, I'm wrapping my head around the latest challenge. I'll be 20 week tomorrow and all's well (as if that means anything in the long run!). We know that if the e coli crosses into this Little One's blood stream, probably the first we will know about it is if labour starts (labour usually starts within 24 hours of the bacteria crossing over). On Wedn night I started having strong consistant tightenings /braxton hicks / whatever you want to call them. In my previous 3 pregnancies I had never got tightenings as early as week 19. It was really scarey, waiting to see if it turned into labour or not. It was fine. Advice from my osbtetrician (who provided consult at 9 pm) was that it was just an 'irritated uterus' and I need to rest. Easier said than done 10 days before Christmas.

So I need to get used to that. My tightenings have started, and will probably come and go for the rest of the pregnancy. It did my head in though.

Love to all.

I'm in my usual state of 'argh'. Tried to lay off early temp taking this month - it's so predictable I thought I could pick it up around day 12 and be about on target. Except it has been all over the shop and today FF says I may have ovulated between CD5-11 - I'm day15 now.

Grump.

So now, if I plan to use the progesterone, I have to ov stick pee and pregnancy pee. But actually I think my body is just bloody screwed. pah.

I've also been reading but not commenting for the past couple weeks. I've been thinking of everyone though.

Sophia, I've also started to get braxton hick already (I'm 22 wks). I started noticing them a couple weeks ago, but I've had more this week, and then last night I was having a lot. They did go away when I lay down though, and I was trying not to freak out because I had a dr. appt scheduled for this morning anyways. I had a bit of a nervous breakdown at the doctor's office, and they did an ultrasound to check my cervix. It's fine, baby's fine and apparently it's normal to have the braxton hicks this early in a 2nd pregnancy. I spent lots of time crying in public today (yes, in front of lots of normal pregnant women) so I decided to take the rest of the day off work and relax. whew. just when I think I'm doing well.....the crazies always come back. 4 months to go!
sending good thoughts to everyone.

Sorry I haven't been around too much, things are busy busy here, but just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you all, happy for all the good news, and hoping there is nothing but more to come for all of us xoxoxox

Sophia, thanks for that - letting me know you think of me and my sweet, sweet Otis.

Had a big breakdown yesterday in thinking about the ttc timeline. My doctor (and therefore my husband) really thinks we should wait a few more months before trying. I haven't gotten full on answers, but the peri says he wants my cycles to be regular beforehand, and he wants to be sure my body is ready to hold a pregnancy and keep a baby healthy. I've heard from so many the whole "you won't get pregnant if your body isn't ready" adage, and would like to believe it, but I also couldn't fathom the pain if I walked into a m/c situation because we conceived too soon. At the same time, I am frantic at the thought of waiting until March or April to try.

Anyone have any thoughts? For those of you who had a full term loss, what kinds of timelines/recommendations about subsequent pregnancies did you hear? I know of many who conceived fairly early on, and others who didn't, of course...just trying to think this all through.

I think I'd have an easier time with the patience part of it if I was a few years younger. I just turned 39 in November and I'm freaking out at the thought of never getting to have living children or a future pregnancy due to my age.

Sarah N - Foster died at 39w1d and was born 2 days later. We were told that we could TTC as soon as we were ready to. For us that was about 6 weeks when my stitches came out. I got pregnant in September, so 6 months later but only after 3 normal-ish cycles. My understanding with the 'wait X # of cycles' is to help with pregnancy dating and grief more than anything else.

I really don't think it matters when we get pregnant - unless there is something like clotting or hormonal disruptions (something that is known to cause m/c) - we will either carry to term or not. The thing I'm working on remembering is that we really don't have a whole lot of control in this whole thing. It's not like we all wanted to be able to post here.

So yeah - I'm no Dr, but that's the advice and our experience. And if I could have done it differently I would have had unprotected sex, and charted but not actively TTC. It put a strain on our marriage while we were grieving that we could have done without. I would have given it the 6 months but of course, it's impossible to be patient with yourself when you just want to have a living child.

AFM - I'm a mess. A hormonal self-loathing mess. I am looking like I have gestational diabetes and since the Dr blamed me for not doing the GD test with Foster (implying that our informed choice was the cause of his size and therefore death) - i have immense baggage. I am not dealing well with it, but trying. Here's the crazy talking, but sometimes I feel like everyone is waiting to see how I kill this one too.

I'm going to go work on some self-kindness. That other shit is toxic.

Oh Sarah H (it's very silly to address you like that, by the way, but I guess for sake of clarity I'll include your initial!), yikes, I can't even imagine. I'm so sorry.

You know, the doctors have told me to follow a GD diet if I ever get pregnant again even though I tested negative for GD and in Otis's autopsy it also said that his development showed no signs of GD (other than his 11 pounds. my weight gain was a slight concern for them (after the fact) as well - I gained over 50 pounds. but they tested something - his pancreas maybe? and the autopsy clearly stated "in addition to mother passing the glucose tolerance test at 24 weeks, infant shows no signs of GD" or something like that)

I suppose I understand that they are trying to be cautious, and, well, shit, if they told me to eat nothing but carrots and rice for 38 weeks and they could guarantee me a living child out of it, you can bet your ass I'd do it. but - to imply that your informed decisions were at the root of what killed foster - for crying out loud, that just plain is awful. Yes, self-kindness sounds very much in order right now. Warm shower, hot tea, fresh cut flowers, and lots of deep breaths? My therapist and I keep working on my mantra - "I did the very best I could with the information I had. I made excellent choices for myself and for Otis. I wanted the best for him, and everything I did in my pregnancy reflected that." I am sure that the same is true for you and Foster. And for this pregnancy as well. I'm sorry that you even have to deal with the toxic thoughts. Sending you lots of love.

thanks for your input about waiting and trying and everything else. I agree - actively or obsessively TTC will, without a doubt, throw a HUGE wrench into our marriage. it even did the last time around (when we conceived Otis) as I was all gungho peeing on OPKs and temping and yaddaddaa and DH was all "let's just be romantic and see what happens" so this time around I will take some of what I learned the previous time and try to apply it (i.e. no need to tell him when my OPKs show that double line, and never, ever, try to lull him home from work with a photo text of aforementioned OPK...) At least not within the first few months of "trying." And I agree - I do want to keep our sex life as more than just trying to conceive. I think maintaining our connection right now is the most important thing - as much as I want to be pregnant again, I need to stay connected to my husband, desperately.

I guess where DH and I veer away from each other is that he thinks we should be using birth control these first few months, and I don't. The perinatologist kind of hesitated when I asked him if we should be using birth control, and then said yes. I'm going to ask him again, seeing as when I asked I still had 42,000 stitches and it wasn't exactly like having sex was even on the horizon of reality at that point, so who knows what he might say now.

Hey Sarah N.,

I also had a full term, full size baby boy .Reid was a puny (at least compared to Otis and Foster) 9-14 at 38w5d and died sometime just before he was delivered). I also had GD mentioned as a possible cause for his death. I did have the test and passed but they found some sugar in his liver so they think I may have still had GD. I got the same advice as Sarah H. at my 6 week check up, "start trying whenever you are ready" and I had a C-section. I however have not managed to get pregnant yet despite my cycles being very regular for the last 7 months.

TTC without being obsessive sounds like a great plan and I hope you can pull it off, I know I can't be relaxed about it.

I'm glad that so may of you are doing okay (at least physically) in your pregnancies, but despite our best efforts, I will not have to avoid the red wine this Christmas. I should be ovulating right after Christmas, probably right after my parents arrive to sleep in the guest bedroom below our bedroom (why does this keep happening to me?)

Hi Sarah N, here's my 2 cents worth:

After Salome was born full term, we first needed to wait for autopsy results before we thought about ttc, and that took 16 weeks. My Obst gave us what I think was good advice too at the time, along the lines of "You are probably going to start to catch your breath at week 8 to 10 and you may want to start trying again then. Lots of couples do, and then end up pregnant at about 3 months after the death of their baby. That puts you having the birth due at about the same time as the first anniversary, and that can be really hard for Mums.... Also it could be really hard for you to be 36 weeks pregnant this Christmas. Going through another pregnancy with the same change of seasons and annual milestones etc as the last one might in itself be extra hard."

My Obst also talked about similar things that I've talked with my counsellor about: in the early months my desire to get pregnant again was entangled with a deep heartbroken yearning for our Salome, a sense of desperation to have my arms filled with a living baby, a desire to have a different / correct end to the story of a pregnancy, and sometimes just wanting to turn back time and be pregnant again.

Back then the desire to ttc was really grief-fueled for me, and trying not to take action on it was like pulling back the reigns of a run-away horse. But my husband was not at all sure he wanted to try for another pregnancy, and since my yearning for another baby was so strong and we didn't want that to cause big tensions between us, we started couples counselling specifically for that reason. Time passed and my yearning for another baby changed (did not diminish). By about 6 months after Salome's death, my husband and I both got to a point where we were ready to try to welcome a new person into the family, and ready to risk another pregnancy, with the standard risk of miscarrriage and also all the stupid fucking e coli nonsense. For some reason, no logic or justice to it, we conceived straight away, despite having had the most stressful 6 months of our lives.

That's how it was for us, It's different for everyone and I've read stories on Glow of people who have conceived within 8 to 10 weeks of their baby's death and that's worked beautifully for them.

Wherever you and your husband go with all this, wishing you peace through your very dark days at the moment.

I had an emergency c-section after a complicated pregnancy (Matilda had BWS - a genetic condition, I had pre-eclampsia, polyhydromis (too much fluid), and gestational diabetes. After Matilda died I was obsessed with when we could start trying again. My period came back at 5 weeks and at my 6 week check-up my ob said preferably wait for another period but when I asked if I needed to use protection at that point she said no. We had unprotected sex once at that point but then I spent half the night googling uterine ruptures and was a mess so decided to wait for the next cycle which was 9 weeks. We were also waiting on genetic testing (15% of BWS cases are familial) but had been told that could take over 6 months and knowing what we knew about BWS (most kids are OK in the long term) we were going to try again anyway regardless of the results. So we tried the next cyle (sex every second day, no charting or OPKs) and fell pregnant and Max arrived safely after a normal pregnancy other than GD again.

I was nervous being pregnant again so soon after a c-section (Matilda was born 30/10/2009 and Max conceived 4/1/2010) but my ob wasn't worried about it.

The pregnancy was very hard but I don't think waiting would have helped that. Having said that though we were extremely lucky to fall pregnant so quickly - I'm pretty sure the stress of trying month after month or a m/c would have tipped me over the edge of not coping (if you could call what I was doing at that point coping). I do wonder if the pregnancy distracted me from some of my grief - it didn't feel like it at the time but now the newborn haze has lifted I'm crying about Matilda a lot more than I did in the second half of my pregnancy. Having said that, that may of been the case whenever I'd had another baby. I felt guilty around Matilda's first birthday (Max was five weeks old then) that I couldn't even give her a whole year of grief if that makes sense. But I wouldn't change it.

Sarah N - I understand your desperation. I was 28 and desperate and wondering why I hadn't started having children earlier which in hindsight maybe wasn't rational (but what is about TTC after loss). But if my doctor had told me to wait, I most likely would have or at least gotten a second opinion. A lot of my pregnancy choices with Max were based on - am I going to blame myself I do this and something wrong and if so, I didn't do it. I was hard enough coping with losing Matilda when I didn't blame myself and my heart goes out to all of you dealing with that as well as grief. Sending love as you try and figure out what to do. I also use the mantra - 'We did the best we could at time with the information we had then' mostly when I feel guilty about not spending more time with Matilda in the nursery when we thought she'd still be coming home (the nurses kept telling me I needed to rest while I could because soon I'd be discharged and driving back and forwards everyday).

Sarah H - I had GD in both my pregnancies. With Matilda's it seemed like a non-issue because we had so many other things going on and always knew we weren't going to make it anywhere near 38 weeks (GD gets harder to control as the pregnancy progresses). With Max's it sent me down a big hole when I was diagnosed (my ob always attributed it to everything else being complex with Matilda's pregnancy and didn't think I would get it again). I blamed myself for not pushing for a 20 week test - I asked and my ob didn't think it was necessary. And then it caused me huge amounts of stress no one needs in PAL especially when my 36 week scan showed Max had suddenly gotten really big - I only lasted a week after that before breaking down and my ob bringing the c-section forwards. Having said that it looks like Max is just big not big from GD (he's in proportion and apparently GD tends to show as big about the adominal circumference and no hypoglycemia after birth). If you (or anyone else) do have GD can want to get in contact with me to chat about it my email is madeline.taylor at gmail.com

I don't think their are any easy answers on the right time to try again.

Sending love and hugs to everyone. Maddie x

Thanks for the kind comments. Today is better as it tends to go in this land of grief.

Sarah N (I'm used to the initial thing - there were always multiple Sarah's in my classes growing up) - I've not come across many other mum's with 11lb-ers (lest you get those looks of horrified wonderment from other people).

Maddie - thanks for the offer and the information. I will probably email you if you don't mind. Foster was just big. He was 23" long and just a big chunky long dude that my body handled perfectly so I'm still not sure in my heart of hearts that I was GD or that's what killed him. It was all because of that stupid OB who finished the delivery (i had a general to finish the delivery - I couldn't keep going). She walked in only 3 or 4 hours after we had said goodbye, only 7 hours after I had given birth and asked whether we had done the GD test because he WAS SO BIG. SUCH BIG SHOULDERS. Fuck, I don't know - he was our first and neither of us are small people. It was inappropriate and since then it really has felt like we were being blamed for making a choice that we deemed responsible at the time. Now I feel like our choices are being driven by paranoia and legal concern moreso than good solid evidence-based medicine. It's tiring. At least our MW is still on the same page with us, but I'm so worried about becoming insulin dependent and requiring a transfer of care (what happens in Ontario under this scenario). My experience with OBs hasn't been great so far.

Anyway - sorry for the novel. There's so much I just wish would go away, starting with this BS about GD.

Sarah - Email away and I can pass on anything I know about GD and hopefully offer some support. I'm so sorry you had that awful experience with the ob - just ugh really. Some babies are just big - a friend of mine recently delivered a 12 pounder. Max was 8pd 8oz at 37 weeks so he was going to be big by 40/41 weeks and my GD was controlled. 80% of cases of GD are diet controlled from memory so even if you do have it then you may be able to stay with mw care. Hugs.

Cara, Maddie and Sophia, thanks for chiming in and adding your thoughts and experiences.

I spoke with the peri again yesterday and he says to wait two more months. I've decided I just will, because even if I believe that I could sustain a pregnancy at this point, were I to get pregnant right away, I would not be able to skirt the blaming of myself if I were to get pregnant and m/c in these first two months. Even though my peri would never say "I told you so" and I would hope my husband wouldn't either, it's not fair to any of us to take that risk when the perinatologist has so specifically recommended otherwise.

I do think that I'm going to try to make a plea for stopping contraceptive efforts when we leave for our two weeks in Maui on January 28. (Not quite two months, but close...) I have this romantic vision that we will conceive there because isn't that how it's supposed to happen? Under a rainbow sky and everything? My therapist calls these moments my "experiments in hope" and I find myself simultaneously amused and absolutely horrified and disgusted that I have these very contrived visions of a "new normal happily ever after" fairy tale. As if it were only that easy. Kind of like the Fate's Fool comments about winning the lottery after having been dealt the blows we've been dealt.

My DH had this idea we'd conceive twins after Matilda - he thought that would be the way for the universe to even things up. Not that he ever wanted to replace Matilda but then we'd have two living children (in theory) from two pregnancies. I was terrified by the idea of high risk twin pregnancy.

Urgh. Body behaving mentally. Temp today higher than has ever been, no positive ov or preg tests, no pattern to my temps (though I took the early part of the month off thinking it would be easy to spot where I was) and now I have no idea whether or not to start progesterone or not. Argh. Argh. Argh :(

I know I was poorly one day, felt temperaturish so I discarded that date. I think it might 'possibly' have been an ov that date, even if it was very early if so, but no idea. Or it could have been earlier in which case we may have missed the opportunity or I should be using progesterone and I don't know whether to or not. Bah :(

Hi girls- I just finished reading al of the posts I have missed over the last few days.
I am holding you all in my thoughts. I apologize for not responding to each post, as I do like to do that.
I saw the OB Friday (uneventful) and showed her my charts. I had reiki yesterday (interesting) and am finally Oving- just waiting on the temp to rise. I also have acupuncture scheduled for Tuesday.

I liked reading about the people who were fortunate enough to try and conceive so quickly after delivering- y'all know how much I would love for that to be me. I am now at three months out and will be hoping against all odds that I might have a reliable LP this time.

Maddie, I actually had to read back and see if I had written about my twin fantasy, because I've got that one going too. Though I share your fear of a high risk twin pregnancy too.

Leslie, you know I've got fingers and toes crossed for you.

And Merry, sheesh. Hoping that you get a positive stick peeing on something soon and get some concrete information! Fingers and toes are crossed for you too.

So I'm not the only one with the post-loss twin fantasy. In my head it's the same thought as Maddie's husband, at least I will have 2 kids to show for the two full term pregnancies. Of course as soon as I think about how often there are complications with twin pregnancies then I think that is not what I need, but the fantasy is still there.

Merry, I wish I could send you a manual that would explain just wtf your body was doing.
Leslie, all the best for this to be the month.
Sarah, I hope that vacation in Maui is lovely and romantic and "productive".

I found another way, besides guests and illness and the mess that is Christmas, to make TTC less fun. I got my memorial tattoo on Saturday and my arm hurts so freaking much. I scheduled the appointment so I would know for sure that I was not pregnant, but I never considered how the healing would impact ttc right after. The tattoo is amazing though. (It's here if you want a peek: http://hellogoodbyenow.blogspot.com/2010/12/ta-da.html )

Beautiful ink Car....
How bad is it hurting though? I have a few pieces and they never hurt (unless rubbed) after the work is finished. Be sure to watch and make sure nothing is getting infected....

That's a lovely tatt Cara. Beautiful.

It's beautiful Cara. I hadn't read Reid's story before - I'm heartbroken for you. Maddie x

Well, I *think* it was probably about day 8, which means my period is due tomorrow. I've not had a positive pregnancy test and I've run out of high performance ones now. I think we probably missed it anyway, my cervix is softer and more open and I'm achy. I guess another month gone. Still 19 day cycle is another first.

Cara, that's a lovely tattoo. What part of your arm did you get it inked onto? Sorry it's still hurting - hope it is better by the big OV day.

Merry, 19 day cycle, oof! I'll still hold some hope and keep some fingers and toes crossed for you.