Matilda was our first baby and Max our rainbow baby. He's 8 weeks old now and I've started leaving the house and interacting with other Mums. Which is lovely in so many ways and hurts in others - I just keep this thinking this is how is should have been for us with Matilda.

I've been to breastfeeding meetings and my first mothers group meeting and these things always start with everyone introducing themselves. I always say Max is my second child and I had a little girl that died when she was four days old. When I start saying 'I had a little girl last year...' I see all these big smiles on people's faces and then I say 'but she died when she was four days old' and everyone looks down and no one knows what to say and then I carry on. No one ever says anything but when things come up about pregnancy which they do all the time given we've all just been there I generally talk about my pregnancy with Matilda - I can't really not given how much it influences pregnancy in general for me.

And then yesterday at the mothers group I was talking with three others and the conversation turned to their babies sex - had they found out, did they get what they wanted/expected and I just went silent. For me and I'd imagine everyone here, the babies sex is a loaded question and it's impossible for me to have that discussion without it being based on the fact I've had a little girl and she died. So to stand and listen to these women talk about wanting a boy because they're tomboys themselves or a girl for whatever reason was just hard. No one of them said 'I just wanted a healthy baby'.

I've always been confident socially but since Matilda died and especially in these situations I can't help but feel like the odd one out. I don't know if I'm reading too much into it and it's just me projecting that or if that's the way it is.

I'm not really sure if I have a specific question/point here but just wondering what other's experiences have been like.

Maddie x

Maddie, I've put my own reluctance to share about these things down to the fact that it's obvious I know 'more' than the others in the group, and there will be no-one there who can nod and say, "Yes, I get that, that's how it was for me, too." That validation is a big part of friendship - otherwise it's a room full of strangers listening to one another's stories and nodding politely, but not finding any shared experience to take it any further.

Not totally qualified to answer, since I don't have a living child, but was just thinking about this very type of thing yesterday, envisioning myself someday in the future, attending prenatal yoga classes (if I'm ever blessed to be pregnant again), and wondering about the whole "introduce yourself" time at the beginning of class and what I would say. I obviously wouldn't want to scare all the mothers-to-be in the class, but at the same time it wouldn't feel true to myself or fair to my son if I didn't mention him.

one more road bump to navigate in the land of BLM-hood. *sigh*

sending love.

Moops - I think that's just it. I talk about these things all the time with other babyloss Mums but that's because they understand. But if I don't talk about it then in some conversations I just have nothing to say (and that's not like me).

Sarah - I wanted to do prenatal yoga but avoided it for that very reason. I avoided pregnant women in general. There is actually a women in the mother's group who was at a first aid course I did while pregnant. At the time I just smiled and then avoided any conversation with her all day and I remember saying to my husband 'I bet that women thought I was a snobby b*tch'. So hopefully now she's knows about Matilda she's put two and two together on why I avoided her that day. I don't want to worry other pregnant women (as much as I can't cope with their happiness and innocence) but to an extent I think even when they hear our stories they still assume those things happen to 'other people'.

I'm not sure if I'm qualified to answer this Maddie as my only living child is a surviving twin. But I just wanted to say that I've also struggled a great deal with how much to say to other parents about my other child and how to say it.

Initially, I always mentioned the fact that I'd had another daughter who died at three days old. I think it was still all so raw that I simply couldn't have kept it quiet. I've had a whole range of reactions, sometimes people are wonderful and say exactly the right thing, sometimes you discover that the person you are speaking to has lost a baby themselves, sometimes you get silence, sometimes you WISH you'd had silence instead of whatever ridiculous (but generally well-intentioned) thing the person said. The worst is when I've had people just get up and walk away from me. I find that response quite difficult to fathom.

As time has gone by, I find I probably mention my other daughter about 50% of the time. Sometimes I don't feel comfortable enough in the situation or with the person I'm speaking to. Sometimes I just don't want to talk about it. My daughter's memory is such a delicate and precious little thing that I have decided that I will pick and choose who and when to share it with.

I've also felt like the 'odd one out' definitely although my situation is by no means unique. But nearly everything that had happened to me is outside the range of experiences reflected in an average group of parents. And, in the absence of the validations described by moops above, it is very hard not to feel like an outsider. Particularly when many of the things bonding the other parents together, their shared experiences, are things that we so desperately wanted.

My rainbow is not my only living child, but I do understand this. I find I have had to limit baby type classes/activities to just LLL and the babywearing group I co run. Some of the women at these groups already know my history and are good friends, but attending mum and baby yoga class was horrendous, I'd be shaking, close to tears and just generally a big old bundle of anxiety, so I stopped going.
I still find the intro at LLL hard. I just gloss over how many children I have unless someone asks a specific question.
I was asked this week if I wanted to go to a baby singing class, but had to decline, I knew I couldn't handle it.

Maddie, I don't have a rainbow baby, but I do totally get this. I have two living daughters and lost my third girl. Recently, one of my neighbors announced that she is pregnant with her third baby. She then talked to me about experiencing a third pregnancy. I am new to the neighborhood so she doesn't know about my loss. It took everything inside of me to say: "I know all about being pregnant for a third time." But I shut my mouth and smiled. I just didn't want my terrible experience to cloud her happiness.

I also hate the gender talk. I cringe when people talk about wanting one sex versus the other. This same woman also already has two daughters and was talking about wanting a boy. Again, I wanted to scream at her that a girl... a living girl... would be wonderful.

The truth is that, in most settings, we are outsiders. Very few people have endured what we have. As we live the rest of our lives, we might stumble across a person or two (in real life) who has gone through this. We will immediately feel a kinship there. But, in comparison to the rest of the world, we are unique.

Oh Maddie,

I hope you forgive me chiming in, too, since my rainbow baby is not my first since losing Will. But, I just wanted to give you a virtual hug and a nodding 'yes, I feel that'. I'm still struggling with the 'telling' as far as to whom and when. When I don't tell others that Abby is a twin, and Will is our lost son...then I feel as if I'm betraying Will. But sometimes the awkwardness and silence is too much to bear.

I have felt like an outsider my entire time in motherhood. I had infertility for 4 years before conceiving my son and then had a difficult pregnancy but was fortunate to have a healthy baby. I CRINGED at other mothers' mentions of gender preferences and off-handed comments about getting pregnant so easily. I had IVF for my twin pregnancy...and sometimes I really feel like women judge Will's loss like it was my own doing because I wasn't 'meant to be pregnant naturally'.

Being the mother of a newborn is also incredibly isolating, exhausting and emotionally draining even IF you aren't a grieving mom. Even though I feel misunderstood in many ways due to my infertility history and babyloss, I have found that there are kind and wonderful women out there who will support me even if they don't know my exact pain.

I hope you can find the same

I can kind of relate. I'm currently pregnant with my rainbow baby, which is my second child. As a preggo mom now, I avoid most "pregnancy things" - things like prenatal yoga because I just don't think I could do that again (I did some classes with my first baby, Acacia). I doubt I'll do another birthing class (already been there, done that - both the clas and the birth). I'm not showing too much yet, but I've already thought about how conversations could go with strangers when they ask if this is my first pregnancy. I think I will be gently honest and say no, this will be my second baby and that my daughter died 2 1/2 days after she was born because she had trisomy 18. And I've wondered how it will be to find support with other moms after my baby is born. I had already looked into various community resources for mom and babies groups from Acacia's pregnancy... I know I want to parent in community, and I'm scared that will be very hard to do without other in-real-life BLMs/parents.

I'm also pregnant with my rainbow baby, as Foster was our first. This time I am doing the yoga, but I will be honest about which child this is if asked. I know it's not a pretty or nice answer but its the truth. This is my second pregnancy - my son was stillborn in March. I've said it a dozen times in the last few weeks and it gets easier.

I won't apologize for my experience or my son. How people deal with it is up to them. He nor his death is a taboo subject for me - and so I never shy away from talking about it. It's just the way I am I guess.

As for the gender thing, I think I would be able to relate to the conversation with the other mothers - after all, I have a son, I had to process what it would mean to raise a boy, etc etc. so I think my opinion is still valid even though he died.

All in all, we are not traveling easy paths.

In reality I guess we'll see how I feel after this one is born. (See - I said it like I would happen. ;-))

Much love,
S

Maddie, like others, my "rainbow" is not my only living child, but I get it, all of that (as much as I can without being in your shoes, because I know every experience here is totally unique -- and losing your first born is also a unique and terrible pain I am sure). I often want to tell people all about Henry, or my pregnancy with him, or I want to tell the people who say "oh a boy AND a girl, arent you lucky?" -- that really I am not one of the lucky ones, that I am not like them at all. Its hard to have to shut my mouth sometimes when I dont want to, or it feels unfair and terribly sad to do so. I think the bottom line is that we are different, and we will never totally fit in with other mothers or groups where loss isnt part of the equation. I wish it wasnt so. Sending you love...

maddie,

i completely relate. my "rainbow" is my first living child and like you, i have struggled with what to say. at my first mother's group meeting, i was caught so off-guard when we were supposed to introduce ourselves and talk about our pregnancy, i just rambled through it and have no idea what i actually said about my daughter, blythe, who died three days after she was born.

and even after making it over that hurdle, it is still hard -- i have a different perspective from a lot of the new moms, and to some extent, it just is what it is. when they go around the room and talk about how they couldn't connect initially to their baby or were surprised by how unattached they were, i am the odd one out. or, i at least feel that way. i adore my son, i am probably too connected to him and i never want to let him out of my sight. a healthy baby is not something i take for granted.

i've found that it's hard to find a place for someone like me. i'm not entirely a new mom, but i have no idea what i am doing and all of our son's milestones are our firsts too. if you ever want to share or commiserate, i'm at gmh217@yahoo.com and am happy to chat, even if it is only virtually :)

many hugs to you.

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I suspected it's like Gayle said 'it is what it is' but it helps to know I'm not alone.

It's not the initial introduction I struggle with - well I cry most times but I'm used to that now - because I always do talk about Matilda in groups where I'm planning to come more than once. And I'm prepared for that. It was more the feeling like an outsider that caught me by surprise. But I guess in most situations with other Mums I am.

Mindy, Eve, Jeanette, Catherine - thanks for sharing your experiences. I guess I'm feeling this particurlarly as a first time Mum is that I know I need to meet other Mums and make connections because I don't already have those sorts of connections. But yes you're all dealing with the same thing as well.

I think I might be finding it hard because I've always been extremely extroverted and made friends easily. In social groups I used to be the loud talkative one who felt at home around others. But now without talking about Matilda it feels like any new friendships are shallow because she is and what I've been through is such a big part of my life.

I guess it's really going to be a case of accepting that while we have young children this is how it's going to be.

Maddie x

Gayle - I tried to send you an email but it bounced? I'm madeline.taylor@gmail.com if you could send me one first I can reply. Maddie x