Hi everyone. Glow has been a tremendous help to me- ok a lifeline- as I move through the wasteland that is life after losing our fourth child, Cullen, on September 11th.

I wanted to step into this area of the discussion boards for several reasons. To look for advice, to talk with only those who understand. To gather support for the road ahead.

I have not put Cullen's birth story on my blog yet, though I probably will this week. To give background to those of you who are reading this I thought I should share a brief explanation of how I got here.

Cullen is our fourth child. We have three living children ages 5, 3.5, and 2. I had HELLP syndrome with my first and he was delivered a month early via emergency C-section. My very VBAC centered OB did not feel I was a great candidate for VBAC so I continued to have C-sections for my 2nd and 3rd. Before Cullen I had 2 early miscarriages in August and October 2009. In January Cullen came into our lives bringing hope and light. The pregnancy was normal- no health issues at all and he presented as completely healthy on his ultrasounds. I have never been in labor so I have no idea if the strange rolling feelings I had in the days prior to his delivery were contractions or not. He was born via c-section on September 11th which was a day after we learned he was gone. He was 34 weeks.

So here I am one day shy of a month without him. It has always been our dream to have four living children so we are going to try immediately for a 5th child. Our doctors have suggested we wait until December (3 months) to try again.

So here is why I am writing... I know many of us waited a long time to TTC while others try immediately.

Is there anyone else here who decided to try immediately? I will be honest- I don't know if I can even make it 2 more months. I have not yet ovulated but I know I will at sometime in the upcoming weeks.. I would be lying if I said I am not considering trying before I even get a period ( I can tell physically when I ovulate).

I've taken the cautious route- waited a year after a c-section, etc. It left me with 2 miscarriages and then after them a stillbirth. I guess my point is there are simply no guarantees. I know there are risks to having babies/pregnancies born via c-section close together. But I guess that now I also know there are no guarantees that any of it will not fall to pieces anyway regardless of taking the more conservative route.

So what is my point here- I guess it is to introduce myself and talk amongst all of you. Whether I TTC in a few weeks or a month or two it is going to be a terrifying journey.
Thank you for listening....
Leslie

We lost our son at the end of June at 20 weeks and was told that we "should" wait three months and that if we didn't, it might up our chances of miscarriage but that we didn't HAVE to wait three months. So we didn't, I got pregnant again in August and proceeded to miscarry two weeks ago.

Sooo.....this is my third loss, we had a healthy (full-term, no problems with the pregnancy) son three years ago, followed by an early miscarriage last summer, followed by a loss at 20 weeks with a baby with severe spina bifida, hydrocephalus and Chiari II malformation, followed by this early miscarriage two weeks ago. They are sending us to a specialist for genetic testing, etc,etc BUT I really just wonder if it was too soon to be trying again.

My point is.....personally, having been through what I have now been through, I would wait till December. But I think if you do wait and it works out, you will always wonder if it could have happened sooner and if you don't wait and it doesn't work, you will wish you had waited. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Unless you don't wait and it does work, which was not my experience but I SO HOPE would be yours. Good luck with your decision, no matter how long you wait, it's really just moving forward on blind faith. Love to you xoxoxo

We tried pretty much straight away after a c-section - I couldn't face waiting. My ob suggested waiting for two periods but that was more for timing the pregnancy and was happy for us not to use contraception post the 6 week check up. My period returned at 5 weeks and we didn't try that cycle but did the following one and fell pregnant 9 weeks after Matilda was born. Once I was pregnant I got scared about being pregnant so soon after a c-section but it was OK and Max was delivered via c-section at 37 weeks (due to my anxiety) and is three weeks old now. I am aware we were extremely lucky to fall pregnant so quickly and bring a baby home so soon.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

So sorry to hear about little Cullen :(
I was told that there was a statistical difference with success if we were to wait a year (Isabella was an unexplained intrauterine death at 24 weeks, possibly caused by an immune system problem). I wanted to try straight away though and it was very tough waiting. After about 6 months we decided not to try again for a few more years and then I fell pregnant accidentally! The only thing I have found is that pregnancy hormones on top of grief is very tough going. In the first few months I half expected that somehow the grief would get better and that I would "get over it" at least a little bit, which looking back now is totally illogical as I've not forgotten any of my other kids, so why should I expect to forget about Bella? This pregnancy has been a whole new ball game and you are right in that it is terrifying. I don't feel like I am "expecting" a baby this time and I'm battling to "not to get too attached" or to make any plans for anything involving a baby. It's all very different and I wish I could have a little faith in my body again. Then again there is no way to live life without risks all around, yes this baby could die too, hell I could die, or get hit by a bus tomorrow, the universe is a very cruel and unfair place, but maybe ..just maybe... the dice will roll in my favour this time around. We are not really here that long, sometimes it's worth a gamble even if you might lose xxx

We decided to try immediately - 6 months on we are still trying. But Freddie was also hard to conceive (8 months) so I had evidently lost my touch.

Lots of love and luck with it :)

I was also told to wait 3 months and 2 cycles before TTC again after my son was stillborn at 41 weeks and delivered by emergency c-section. My husband and I decided to wait because we were concerned about uterine rupture and making sure my uterus healed properly - we would like to have at least 2 more living kids which means at least 2 more pregnancies and c-sections. I found it extremely difficult to wait - in fact, we only really made it 2 1/2 month before trying again. It was a big relief to start trying again - gave us some much needed hope - although I'm now 4 months out and have had 2 cycles but have not ovulated at all postpartum.

I'm so sorry you've had such a hard time - good luck with whatever you decide.

Leslie, I wish you much peace as you figure out how to proceed here.

I was "lucky" in that my husband wasn't ready for a few months....though if it had been up to me, I would have started trying right away (and we had the green light from my doctor from the start). I think it's very very normal to have an intense and immediate desire for more children. Of course that doesn't mean it's not right for you and your family, but when I was in your shoes it was helpful to read and understand that my intense desire for another baby was a normal response to this kind of loss.

But like I said, I was "lucky" that I was essentially forced to wait a few months until my husband felt ready. Now that some time has passed (just a little over 4 months), I can look back and say that, for me, I'm glad he wanted to wait and we didn't get pregnant right away. I think the pregnancy hormones combined with the intensity of early grief would have been way too much. Or perhaps I'm just focusing on the silver lining? Who knows.

I keep trying to write more but I think what it comes down to is that we will deal with what we're given. We're already doing just that, dealing with the loss of our precious children. If a subsequent child is in the cards soon, you'll manage it with grace. If it takes a while longer, for whatever reason, you'll manage that with grace, too. Sending love.

Oh, and just for the record, my husband decided he was ready about 2 1/2 months out. We tried a month or two (but our timing wasn't great), and now we're taking a break to avoid overlapping due dates. Hopefully we're successful soon.

We "waited" six months and got pregnant on the second cycle, although it was not waiting so much as arguing and dithering and changing our minds about trying again. My husband was kind of a dick about it at times, but he had some good reasons for wanting to wait -- he did not want our third child to be impossible in a world where our second child lived, if that makes sense. In other words, he wanted to wait until after our son's due date had passed. And then he wanted to wait until our family had reached some semblance of happiness and stability. He wanted as much medical reassurance as we could get, which also took a few months.

But the real reason he wanted to wait, and the reason I was okay with waiting (although not with giving up altogether), was that we attended some support group meetings for people undergoing subsequent pregnancies after having lost a child, and there was such a profound difference between the people who had waited and those who got pregnant again right away. We met two couples that had waited a full year to get pregnant again -- one waited for a medical clearance, the other started trying right away but it took a year to be successful. And both of those couples were so calm, so centered. They had both had late-term losses but we met them in their third trimesters, and I could not believe how joyful and peaceful they seemed. I asked them both about the wait and they both said they were very glad that they got to full grieve their lost babies before contemplating new babies, that the wait made it easier to accept the new baby on its own terms and not as a replacement, and in one case the woman said she couldn't have stood having a boy rather than a girl like the one she lost, had she not given herself time to heal.

And on the other hand we met couples that had gotten pregnant right away and were still grieving heavily while waiting to meet their new babies. It looked so, so hard. Pregnancy is an anxious and emotional time for me under the best of circumstances, so I am very glad that we waited.

We couldn't wait forever because I am 41. Seven months feels about right; I still have days when I am so sad and scared, but mostly I feel hopeful, and I feel very strongly that I can welcome and love this baby on his or her own terms. (Three or four months ago, all I wanted was a little boy to raise. Right now I will be so happy and grateful for any baby I get to bring home.)

Sweet mammas it brings me to tears to read your posts. The losses, the longing, the support- how much it helps me to connect with other mother who are going through this. Thank you all for talking with me.

I am grateful to hear from other c-section mammas here at glow. I feel like the issues behind repeat c-sections are going to keep me up at night forever and it helps to know that I am not alone in my fears.

Keely I am so very sorry about your losses. Why do we have to experience it so many times? It hurts me to know how much you are suffering and how much you have been through. I hate it for all of us.

Maddie you give me hope.

Frustrated fairy thank you so much for your words- I think I have recited the 'it's all a gamble' sentiment more than anything lately.

Merry and Stacey I am thinking of you- the pain that comes with trying and waiting is so heavy. Why can't mothers of lost babies just get a 'pass' on anything?

M- thank you. When the time comes and you are ready I hope it all falls into place for you. I wish that for all of us. Does 'deserve' sound like too entitled of a word?

Beth- thank you so much for your honesty and for sharing this. It is a very interesting part of the process to ponder. I wish I knew that I had it in me to be patient- but I know I don't. How awful is that?

I guess I have to see what happens next with my body. Who knows how long it will even take me to ovulate. I am very appreciative of your support and stories. I know I will need it no matter how the next few weeks/months play out.

I wish we didn't even have to talk about things like this- that the fear was never instilled in the first place. It is just such a completely new and different view on everything. The rose colored glasses are definitely gone.

Leslie - The repeat c-section thing keeps me awake at night as well. I had a c-section for Matilda so I'd had one before I ever got to bring a living child home from the hospital. We did have unprotected sex one time in that first cycle and then I was up for hours that night reading about uterine ruptures - that's when I decided to wait until the next cycle. My ob was very unconcerned though and that helped.

Following from what Beth said - I found this pregnancy incrediably difficult especially at the start when I was still crying about Matilda all the time. But now Max is here I wouldn't do it differently. One thing about being pregnant that's hard is having to go to places where there's lots of pregnant women like the ob's office and explain your history repeatedly. And other people tend to think now that you're pregnant again that it 'fixes' your grief which it doesn't. I had to tell some people close to me that just because I was pregnant again didn't mean I was OK around other pregnant women and babies.

Maddie x

I could have written this post. My little guy died on Aug 21st, my first baby. I also had a c section and am desperate to try again. I have been given similar advice - 3 months or 2 AF's - if only things were that simple - i'm the wrong side of 35 and have PCOS . It just seems like a lifetime. No sign of AF yet and Im 8 weeks post section.

I am terrified of everything - terrified of waiting, terrified of not waiting, terrified about infertility, terrified about uterine rupture, terrified about pregnancy. Jesus. My grief goggles are skewing everything. I just don't know where I am. I'm lost

Maddie, yours is the story I'm choosing to focus on to get me through today. Congrats

oct2010, I really get the terrified of everything thing, I bet we all do. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't all round. How the hell you are supposed to make any kind of rational decision is beyond me. I hope one day that the world slows down and I recover some kind of forward planning skills, as right now my coping thing is to not plan anything ahead (other than the really practical stuff) and just take every day as it's thrown at me.
One of the things that I find really hard about being pregnant again is that I am am not at all fine around "normal" pregnant women and going to the antenatal clinic every few weeks totally bites. Although I am getting used to the fact that I cry in the waiting room every single damn time, I still feel like an idiot. I'd just love a t-shirt that says - "I'm not crazy, my baby died here last year"
I also hate the "newborn hit squad" that seems to arrive the moment I get to the antenatal clinic, all these happy families come pouring out of the labour ward with their babies in car seats or in little bundles. It sends me into meltdown.. I honestly wonder how I am going to feel having my own live baby (if I'm that lucky), I can't even look at pictures of newborns without my lip quivering. I'm hoping it's different with your own?

Oct - I'm glad I can give you some hope. I was terrified of secondary infertility even though we'd had no problems conceiving Matilda. I even asked my ob how long we would have to try for before we could get further testing at my 6 week check up.

FF - I cried every time at the ob's office in the early days and through pretty much every scan I had. My ob's office wasn't at the hospital which I was grateful but I cried the first time we went back there as well.

Oh Maddie- I cling to your story as well. Thank you so much for posting. In all honesty I hope for another pregnancy soon but I hear all of your words and understand what could come with it. I was talking to a friend today about how any future pregnancy could go and said the same thing you mentioned- if people think another pregnancy will fix all of this they are very, very mistaken. My longing for a fifth child will always be there but a living fifth child will never replace Cullen. Nothing will. I just wonder if the outside world will realize that.

Oct. 2010 I am so very sorry for your loss. I am right there with you on the joggling board of fears and longing. I want to, I don't want to. I must try immediately, I must wait. I am like the Sybil of trying after a stillbirth. If you ever want to talk I am sure I and my multiple personalities will make for good company.

Frustrated Fairy- I can't imagine how hard it must be to sit there waiting for every appointment. it sends chills down my spine.

Leslie -- I'm so sorry for the loss of your little boy.

After our daughter died at 7 weeks of age, we started trying immediately for another baby. I'm "old" so felt that time wasn't on my side. Also, I knew that another baby would be the only thing, other than time, that would make me feel better.

I got pregnant with my son six months later. My son is now 12 days old and the most wonderful blessing. I was right -- he has helped my grief more than anything has in the 15 months since my daughter passed away.

Good luck to you.

Leslie - While it was incrediably hard being pregnant again I'm also not sure if waiting would've helped but I'll never know now. There were some advantages to trying again straight away - I was steering clear of social events and so on because of my grief so I didn't have to tell a lot of people about my pregnancy in the early days. And in some ways my grief distracted me from the pregnancy in the first trimester (of course there was guilt attached to that as well).

There's no 'right' time and whatever you decide will be the right decision for you.

And Olivia is right as well - Max has been here just over 3 weeks and brings me so much happiness. He doesn't replace Matilda and in some ways my grief has increased since he arrived but so has my happiness and hope for the future. And that's what I hope everyone else in here gets to experience soon.

Maddie and Olivia- thank you so much. I truly appreciate everyone talking about this with me.

Tomorrow is the day Cullen was supposed to be delivered. Today has been rough as I know I was supposed to be excited and packing a bag for tomorrow's journey and hospital stay.

So as I sit here empty I look at his picture and just miss him so much it kills me.

And I know I need to try again because the emptiness is so lonely.

The question is will my body cooperate? I'll never know the answer- just like I will never know why we lost him in the first place.

I will be thinking of you and your precious Cullen over these difficult coming days Leslie. xo

Thank you so much Catherine...

Leslie, just wanted to thank you for posting this - it's good to hear experience of other babyloss mothers who also have had to deal the repercussions of c-sections on top of loss. I never expected to have a c-section. I was fully dialated and in the process of pushing my son out when the doctor couldn't find the heartbeat and ordered an emergency c-section to try and save his life. Sometimes I get frustrated that I had to have surgery and then had to wait to recover when there was no chance of saving him anyway - he'd already been gone for at least 20 hours (but, of course, no one knew that at the time and I would have done anything to save him).

Anyway, I have been working on making peace with the fact that if I'm lucky enough to have more kids they will always be delivered by c-section (I can't deal with going through labor again - just too traumatic). It helps me to hear the experiences of you and Maddie and others who have dealt with c-sections and the pain of loss. So thank you.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow on the anniversary of the day your son was supposed to be delivered. Tommorrow is also the 4 month anniversary of my son Naveen's stillbirth. In an ideal world, we'd have had live, healthy babies exactly 4 months apart. I'm so sorry Cullen is not still inside you right now just waiting to be born.

This conversations sums up the impossible position I will be in if I manage to get pregnant again.

3 c/s. 2 vabcs.

Only 1 c/s was definitely necessary. 1 definitely wasn't. The one that wasn't came quite close to killing me.

Freddie's birth was smooth and trouble free with never a flicker of concern; steady heartbeat, quick, no pushing stage really, just a change and a couple of pushes for his head, one for his body.

11 days in SCBU, dead baby. Consultant blames it on his birth, no one else really seems to. No one else can find a single indicator in the whole birth that adds up to dead baby.

So what the hell do I do? My C/S terrified me, I've never had one without complications, fear and pressure. I cannot imagine going and lying down to have that done with all that baggage AND dead baby baggage and knowing how easily I can actually give birth naturally.

Half of me wonders if all that fear is just stopping me getting pregnant again.

Reid was my 2nd c-section. Any future babies (should I be able to get pregnant) will be born via scheduled c-section because I'm sure that I will grow yet another huge baby who won't fit through my pelvis and because after Reid I never want to be in labour again. I will also insist that they monitor the baby constantly throughout the surgery because they stopped monitoring Reid as soon as I went into the OR and his heart stopped some time between then and delivery.

My doctor told us at 6 weeks we could try again as soon as we wanted because I was healing well and going to have another c/s anyway. AF came back at 8 weeks, but the cycle after that we were in different provinces so we couldn't really try. We have been trying ever since but no luck yet and we are past the 6 month mark now.

Leslie, I wish you didn't have to think about this stuff. It probably would have been very hard to deal with a pregnancy on top of the initial grief, but for me the sooner we started trying, the sooner we could get help if it didn't work.

Stacey- I am so sorry that Cullen and Naveen share a part of this day together. I am glad that we are all talking about c-sections after stillbirth because hearing other stories helps me work out my own fears on TTC.

Merry I am so sorry. I wish there were answers. I wish it (TTC) was all so much easier than it is.

Cara- Thank you for sharing this with us. I am so sorry about the loss of your precious Reid. It hurts to know that on top of the pain of losing a child there is also the pain of difficulty conceiving again. I just does not seem fair.

I think I have a better understanding of where I am at with all of this. The bottom line is there are no guarantees. Some women have live babies after stillbirths and some women have miscarriages which are (hopefully) then followed by live births. We never know which way our bodies will go- that is what terrifies me. I don't want another loss. I just want to hold another baby in my arms pink and full of life.

Hi Leslie,
I have just read your story and I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your little man Cullen. I know this post is a little late, I havent checked into to Glow in a little while. I lost my 3rd baby Connor in October last year and was given similar advice to yourself. He was delivered via emergency c-section. I had a check up with my Ob at 3 weeks and then at 6 weeks. I must have pestered him so much to get the go ahead for TTC that by the 6 week check up he caved in and agreed to let me go back on to clomid. I'm 35 and have fertility issues so to me, time was of the essence. After all that, it took 5 months of failed clomid with one early miscarriage and one round of IVF to get me to where I am today which is 22 and a half weeks pregnant. Initially my Ob said I would have to have another c-section when he agreed to me starting ttc from 6 weeks after Connor's birth and death, but now he is supportive of a VBAC although I dont think I have the guts to do a VBAC. He is also supportive of my choice to have another c-section, which is most likely the way I will go. By time this baby is due, there would be 17 months between Connor and baby number 4. My point is that even though you you may start trying right away, it may take a while which will take away the issue of back to back c-sections being close together. Or it may happen straight away, and there are plenty of woman out their like Maddie who have stories that give great hope who have had c-sections close together. I know I found many stories out their that gave m great hope when I was waying up the decision of when to start trying again, and I dont regret my choice at all.
wishing you much love and peace, Cindy