firstly, if you're squeamish about anything, i'll warn you now, you may not want to read. i have tried to name this thread helpfully but without squicking anyone out.

ok. i'm specifically talking about fertile cervical mucous - aka the egg white stuff.

i have now charted 8 cycles and have only noticed EGCM on two occasions, and on both occasions it was only a tiny amount, not enough to be any good.

however - and this is the bit that's potentially squicky - i use a mooncup for my period. and my last two periods, i have noticed what appears to be fertile eggwhite stuff mixed in with the blood. right at the start of my period, and that's a lot of days before i ovulate, so it's way too early to be any use. this never happened before i got pregnant.

my copy of TCOYF is buried far too deep to find at the mo, so i can't check my book, but i wanted to ask - has anyone else ever had anything similar to this? is it worth asking for a referral to someone to investigate why this is happening?

hope this isn't too gross a question (i suspect not, but all my friends think i'm horrible for using a mooncup at all - i love it but they will not be convinced!) thanks for any help you can offer me.

First, I pink-puffy-heart my diva cup, so rock on, sister. What you are seeing during your period isn't actually ewcm though, it's the breakdown of the endometrial lining. EWCM is sort of similar to that, but they are different things. You don't notice it with tampons or pads because of the way they absorb the discharge.

Second, are you checking internally or externally for cm?

it's a clear fluid, that doesn't mix with the blood and that stretches for MILES - is that definitely a different substance? because i've been using my mooncup for years and a keeper for years before that (not used tampons in over 10 years!) and have never seen this before. i just find it really odd. i've also had large clots the last two months and i've NEVER clotted before, and i'm bleeding way more than i used to. but i used to hardly bleed at all, so it's probably more normal than it was before - except for the clots.

not that it makes a difference either way about what the fluid is... i'm definitely not producing anything at a useful time :(

checking both internally and externally. rarely notice anything more fertile than sticky. hardly even produce any sticky. (meh. between that and a pretty short luteal phase i am honestly amazed i ever got pregnant.)

can't reach my cervix to check that. every so often i decide that's ridiculous and try and try and try, but i've never been able to reach. my fingers are quite short. i blame that. it really bugs me.

and i thought that here i might find someone who <3s mooncups. I'm glad i was right :)

oh and ps i've gone back to drinking green tea the last couple of cycles and it hasn't made any EWCM appear :(

Well, I suppose it's possible, if there is no mixing at all, but I've always seen it. Maybe worth a mention in case I'm wrong. Have you had any hormone testing done? Other than cm issues, do things appear normal? Are you clearly ovulating (any charts to view?)?

I can tell you I started clotting a LOT more after my first pregnancy. I mentioned it to docs and my mw during annual exams because it seemed wrong. They all told me the same thing - if the clots are smaller than a quarter, it's normal. Some women simply clot more.

I will say that the clots haven't been in evidence the last two cycles - or the full cycles during which I've taken baby aspirin. Given the placental problems with Gabe's pregnancy, that is reassuring to me.

Too bad green tea isn't helping. I stopped last cycle because I felt like it wasn't doing anything, and the fertile cm appeared later than usual, so with the soy I started up again.

Are you staying well hydrated? Have you tried anything else like epo? or mucinex?

Since there are products like Preseed out there, it may not be an issue, save for not knowing when you may be ovulating (do you opks or anything else?). But it raises an interesting question about how well your body is working. Are you under or overweight at all?

lots of questions and suggestions - thanks!

i'll mention cm to the docs next time i'm in. no testing (hormone or otherwise) or anything yet, we haven't been trying long enough (even though it seems like forever). everything seems normal other than that and yes I'm ovulating normally. no charts online. been thinking about it but, hell, sometimes i'm just lazy :/ and to be fair i didn't know you could until i saw one of your charts.

clots... i had to look up what size a quarter is! the biggest was a weird one, more rectangular than round (... i can't believe i'm typing this) but i suppose in total area it wasn't any bigger than that kind of size. it's reassuring to know that you clotted more after pregnancy though.

i was going to ask about baby aspirin when i was at the doctors yesterday but then i found this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1175854/ before i went in (ironically while looking for articles to back up a request to take it!) and that kind of put me off. i know that other studies have found the opposite, that it helps, but seeing as i don't seem to have any issues in that way i'll leave it for the minute. but if i give it another few months and nothing happens, i'll talk to my doc about that option.

yeah i was disappointed that green tea didn't help. i'm still drinking it though as the association with fertility doesn't seem to be only cm (according to Dr Google!). i usually drink tons of water... have been drinking less since being off sick but now i'm back to work i'm drinking more water again.

i'm not sure what epo or mucinex are!

i'm a bit overweight - last time i checked my BMI was 26-ish (it was about 24.5 before i got pregnant and nearly all the weight has gone on since losing the baby :( ) but not enough to cause problems i don't think. i usually have a pretty good diet but again since november it's gone bad, but i'm improving again now. trying to do a bit more exercise too.

OPKs - yes i use them but rarely get a strong positive. i've never seen the test line be stronger than the reference line. it gets stronger but it's always a few shades lighter. but it doesn't always seem to marry up with when my temperature says i've ovulated - and the month i got pregnant it was way out.

and i'm looking into preseed.

i'm hoping that the acupuncture is going to magically fix any problems that i do have, but it's good to know what i might need to say to the doctors if it does become clear that there's a problem.

thanks eliza. you are so kind to spend so much time helping people out.

The thing that makes me say it's not actual EWCM is that the texture is different to me. It's more . . . stretchy and more dry, imo. EWCM, for me, is a lot more wet and slippery than that. But that and the bleeding is worth a mention to the doc.

There is my blithe, ignorant American poking out - I totally know that you aren't American, and yet, completely forgot! Ha.

As for the charts - I would encourage you to enter your old charts into fertilityfriend (they have a free version), for a couple of reasons. One is that it's easy to access and you can get help interpreting the charts or seeing if anything seems off to anyone (including me - I'm always happy to look a chart), but it also gives you some instant, easy access to view the charts together, which can be nice to have. It's definitely not necessary, but sometimes it can help to have someone review them.

If you were significantly overweight, that might be indicative of something, but at your current BMI, that's unlikely.

As for the aspirin, certainly no need to be on it if it doesn't seem to relate to your symptoms or if your doc isn't in favor. I've seen studies indicating higher rates of success in IVF with baby aspirin, but regardless, it's not meant for anyone. My doc said it's in the won't really hurt (at low dose - high doses are bad for developing fetuses), and it can help, and I have a history of placental problems/bleeding/clotting now, so why not give it a go? It's inexpensive and appears to be working, so hey!

EPO = evening primrose oil, Mucinex is an OTC decongestant that works by thinning the mucus in your chest to help you expel it via coughing. But it works on ALL mucus, and so is supposed to help increase cm and make it wetter/more fertile. I don't actually recommend that method, but have heard good things about EPO. I have never had the problem of too little cm, so I don't know dosages or anything.

One thing I wonder about a bit, given low/no fertile cm and an apparent lp defect (as well as few positive opks) is what your hormones are doing. I'm wondering if your levels are normal or no, because if your estrogen feeds both the lh surge (which is necessary for ovulation and possible to miss via opk, but you should see something close at some point) and the progesterone response. A couple of things could be happening there - low estrogen, high prolactin, low fsh, high thyroid function. . . Or nothing at all, and I'm just spouting off a bit.

A few other natural things you can try to regulate your cycle and produce the best hormones (though taken at your own risk, because these aren't backed by clinical trials, generally) is Vitex agnus castus through the cycle (Chasteberry tree fruit), which can help correct high prolactin levels and regulate estrogen:progesterone levels. It can take awhile to work, and doesn't help everyone, but is generally not harmful (it's been used for milennia to promote women's health). Also, soy, like I'm doing. There are some other herbs as well that do various things.

Honestly though, I think if you do the b-vitamins, you will probably see an improvement in your lp and total cycle with those alone.

What is your typical ovulation date and lp length?

B,
What you are describing is very much alike my periods. They are also heavier and have more clots than before pregnancy. I used to have the egg white stuff during my period even before pregnancy though. I don't think it is ovulation CM. I also used to distinctly notice the egg white stuff during ovulation and now I don't anymore. However, my temp does go up (I have been charting for 3 months) after what I think should be ovulation (sore breasts and bloating - I am not using OPKs). Are your cycles also shorter?

B - I dunno why this didn't occur to me sooner, but have you ever tried a saliva microscope. I just got mine and it's relatively inexpensive and easy to use. Because the changes in saliva are caused by estrogen, you should be able to get some advanced warning of ovulation approaching, even before opks, which could help you with timing, even if you don't have fertile fluid (help you make best use of PreSeed).