I will relate a very clueless conversation that I had recently. I was out for dinner with a group of friends last weekend (one of my few outings in the 5 or so months since my loss). I was talking with the wife of one of my husband's friends. Mind you, she is an ICU nurse and someone who I have generally regarded as kind. Anyway, she started talking about how close she is to her 12 year old son. She proceeded to tell me how she had kidney problems when she was pregnant with him (a fact I already knew) and had to be on bed rest for several months. She then spent at least 10 minutes talking about how her bond with him is so close because she made such enormous sacrifices for him to be born. On and on she talked about how her difficult pregnancy brought them closer, how she did everything she could to keep him alive. I just sat there nodding when, all along, I wanted to shake her. Although I know that she wasn't aware of what she was conveying, the conversation in my mind was basically: "I succeeded where you failed."

Sigh. I'm assuming that when she sobered up, she had a sickening realization that she had made an enormous faux pas. Or maybe not. In any event, it was a sickening conversation for me to sit through.

What's the most clueless/stupid/hurtful/thoughtless thing anyone has said to you?

I have two - from two different co-workers that both knew about my loss.

co-worker A (paraphrasing): I know you are having a hard time but you should try not to think about personal things (meaning my dead son) and focus on your work.

co-worker B (last week, 5 months after my loss): you need a baby, aw a puppy would be better, it won't keep you up all night.

WTF?!

Sometimes I wonder why all breaved parents aren't in jail for manslaughter. It's just a damn good thing I'm not armed.

I'm sorry you had to deal with this crap, Steph. It sucks.

Ugh, people are just stupid. Someone asked me the other day if I was "afraid of the bridge" that leads to the neighboring town (because its so high) -- knowing full well that that was the bridge that Henry died on. I just looked at her, wasnt sure what to say. I think people just cant grasp how far reaching and traumatic it is to lose a child and how everything makes you just feel like shit.

barf.
Karl and I are going to be traveling for a month or so to get some space from here and 'reset' as one friend puts it, and so I was talking to my father today about the cabin we're going to in Nova Scotia. He said 'must be nice' to be able to go away, etc. And I said "no, not really. I'd much prefer an alternative summer to this one.'
That shut him up.

My sister told me to be grateful that my son did not grow up to break my heart. (Her adult son, who is alive and well and healthy and happy, does not speak to her. Probably because she says stupid shit like this.)

Beth, that made me laugh....and what a thing to say, people are just so oblivious.

Good call Beth.

At my 20-week ultrasound, we found out that something was wrong with one of the twins. The other one looked fine. (of course, we ultimately lost both twins)

I was crying hysterically and my doctor said "Well, Niobe, worse case scenario, you still have one healthy child."

"But how can we know that the other twin will be okay?" I asked.

"Oh, no" said the doctor, "I meant you still have one healthy child at home."

Beth, my jaw just dropped. Then, Niobe, I read your post, and it unhinged and hit the desk.

WTF is wrong with people?

For me . . . let's see.

- The doctor debating whether Gabriel was a late miscarriage or a pre-term birth, since I was in between the standards - while Gabriel was left alone on a triage tray, still alive.

- The multiple people who approached me when I returned from work and said that we were young and could have more kids. A) I turned 30 in April, which is no spring chicken in reproductive terms and B) I'd had 2 other failed pregnancies in the past year that they knew of and C) it's awesome how kids are totally interchangeable and all. How is that helpful?

I know that those aren't the worst things ever, but they are the ones that stick with me.

Oh Steph. I've been on the receiving end of one of those conversations too. Ouch.

Jen, you already know what I think about those lovely co-workers of yours.

Beth, I suspect you may well be right about the reason that your sister's son does not speak to his mother. What a thing to say.

Your doctor said WHAT Niobe?

As for your doctor Eliza, words fail me.

Honestly, just when I think I have heard every inappropriate response under the sun, I am still left with my jaw dangling in the early evening breeze after reading these. It mystifies me/ What chain of thought must have gone through these people's brains, that lead them to believe that these particularly shining examples were the right thing to say under the circumstances? Eh?

Oh Eliza, that doctor, holy F-ing shit. Talk about having shit for brains.

So far, I seem to have avoided the idiotic comments. Probably because i don't talk to many people. On of my oldest friends did "like" my Facebook status last night, which was "in half an hour I still won't have a four month-old." I have no idea why she would "like" that.

Amazing how insensitive and thoughtless so many people can be. What is truly frightening is the horrible things that can come out of the mouths of medical professionals. What a betrayal. Sorry, Eliza and Niobe, that you had to subjected to that on top of everything else. And sorry to everyone else who has had to deal with the idiocy of people who seem incapable of being sensitive.

Oh, and "like" to your status update, Sadkitty??? Stupidity like that is why I avoid Facebook on most days.

i can't believe what some people say, i try and think that its out of nervousness and not knowing what to say, but really its because most of these people are just idiots, there are so many idiots.
afm, 2 weeks after harvey died i was at the hospital paying a bill, the clerk behind the desk told me she had been at harveys funeral, wtf!!! then she went on to say that it was for the best, wasn't it?
ah no, it for the best
not in any way

a week ago my brother, bless him, told me he knew just what i was going through because he went through the same thing when his dog died.............

laugh or cry?
like i said, idiots, so many of them
xxx

"Everything happens for a reason"

Still looking for that "reason"

yeah, the dog story. A "friend" said to me she knew exactly how I felt. I assumed she was going to tell me about her mother who died when she was young. (A different kind of loss, but also a huge loss) She didn't say a word about her mom, but proceeded to tell a long story of how she knew how I felt because she had a dog die when she was a kid. What?? You're comparing my baby to a dog??????????????????

I left work in the middle of the day to find out why my 33-week baby had stopped kicking. Obviously when the answer came back that he had died, I didn't return. He was born a few days later, on a Friday.

My workmates said they were gathered around the roster trying to reshuffle things to cover me. And my boss said, "Won't she be back on Monday?"

The other thing I remember well was that my elderly father seemed to think I was on holiday. He kept reminding me that he wanted me to go for a drive and buy him some chooks before I went back to work. I have no idea why I did it, but I remember stomping around in mud, sick with grief, filling up the backseat of my car with boxes full of sqwarking hens.. which my father is too old to even be able to look after. (A neighbour has to come in and feed them and collect the eggs.) Then I had to cut their wings so they wouldn't fly off. I'm not totally a girly girl but it was messy and smelly and just such an unnecessary excursion. It sapped all my mental energy when I could still barely find a reason to get out of bed. To Dad, though, it was a golden opportunity to make the most of me while I was idle.

Grrr.

Shortly after the birth of my twin daughters and the death of one of them, Ella. My husband was trying to explain to his family why they had to follow the visiting rules of the NICU when visiting our survivor Quinn. His sister became upset and started to cry. My mother in law told my husband and I that we needed to be more understanding of his sister who was having a very difficult time emotionally because she had just broken up with her boyfriend.

Gawd, Natalie. I wonder if these people realise it's the throw-away lines we will never forget - they somehow define for us a totally horrible and absurd time in our lives.

Just off the top of my head -

My father, asking me to email a photograph "because I may never have another grandchild".

My father again, 7 weeks after the death of my daughter and immediately after I had been diagnosed with cervical cancer and told I'd need a radical hysterectomy "Cheer up, you can't let these things get you down, look at me, I've lost my job and my girlfriend is crazy".

Any number of people with variations on "God's plan", which seems to involve them tucking their children into bed every night, so that's okay then, and many people stupid enough to say "God doesn't give us more than we can handle".

A colleague, just recently, saying "Do you know Avisha's son will be two years old next month?" Yes I do, he was born a week before my daughter.

Lots of dead baby moms who list their worst comment as someone saying "There must have been something wrong with the baby" when you know, there wasn't, it was just PERFECT. Well there was something desperately wrong with my baby, that's why she's dead, duh. She was no less loved or deserving of life than the "perfect" babies.

A family friend, on hearing I was pregnant again "I hope this one sticks". Uh, the last one "stuck" until 40 weeks and died after she was born from a heart defect. If you can't be bothered to remember what actually happened, just shut up.

My grief counsellor, telling me that in her religion babies aren't named or given full funerals until they reach 7 days old, because until then they aren't really proper people before that.

Oh, Jesus. So, so much stupidity. Comparing the loss of a baby to the loss of a pet?? What the fuck.

Lacri, you've had to deal with so much. I can't even believe what your grief counselor said to you.

Since we're on it, I'll add another of my own. Right after I lost my daughter, I e-mailed a friend to tell her. She responded by saying: "That's terrible. I just got a negative pregnancy test and I've been so depressed!" Sorry but the disappointment one may feel after getting a negative pregnancy test isn't even in the same league as the devastation someone experiences after having a baby die. Of course, this is the same person who sent me an exclamation point fest of a pregnancy announcement a few weeks later. JUST. NO. CLUE.

Out bowling with OLD friends for first time in ages, trying to feel normal, discussing money troubles and humiliation of having to apply for public assistance to get through them and make sure that our living child had food on the table....

"Oh that's no problem, just let [husband] knock you up again."

Yeah...our other friend was desperately trying to shut him up as the words were starting...

I'm torn between "maybe you just can't carry boys" and "i know you are just about to leave for your sons funeral but i just can't keep this to myself - your father and i are splitting up."

Gah.

Still in the NICU and right after Liam's death, an acquaintance showed up the hospital. I still have no idea why. We're not that close. She sat with me next to Ben's incubator and said, in an almost cavalier way, "So I guess they'll throw away half your breastmilk now."

I was so stunned I don't think I said anything. She works for the provincial public health department - in the womens' section. She considers herself a proponent of 'natural' birth and breastfeeding - even though she has no children.

So she continued. "I mean, you only have one baby now. So you don't need all that breastmilk."

I still just sat there, agog. Thinking "It's called a deep-freeze, you fucking dumbass." But not saying it out of principle - because I was still so shocked that she said anything at all. So she continued.

"It's going to spoil. You don't need it all. Right?"

My son's first birthday would have been last Friday. I was talking with a friend at work as I was leaving on Thursday about the upcoming weekend. Another co-worker commented that he didn't realize I was going to be out of the office on Friday. I said yes I was, it was my son's birthday. I work for a fairly small company and EVERYONE knew my son passed away last year. Most of the company was at his funeral service. Anyway the stupid co-worker said that celebrating my son's birthday should be nice. I commented back um not really it will be hard. He got a confused look on his face and said most parents enjoy their children's birthdays. I just stared at him for a minute or two until I reminded him "Jeff, my son died remember!". He seemed embarrassed but I was still pissed at how clueless he could be.

When my son was found to be incompatible with life I ended the pregnancy early instead of carrying to term. That's not something that I tell too many people about because there are often strong feelings involved. I did tell someone the whole story when asked and at the end she said "was there really nothing that could be done to save him?"

Like I hadn't thought of that.

Oh, Anna...I wish I could come give you a hug.

I didn't technically "end" my pregnancy, just delivered Aeryn early, but it was a hard, hard decision; I wanted so badly to go ahead and carry to term, and it felt as though I was ending her life, that I was responsible for her death. I still feel like that sometimes.

The thing that has really helped me was that someone who worked at the hospital let me know that the ethics committtee had reviewed the situation and pointed out that as there wasn't anything that could be done, so I could go ahead and deliver her there. That and the fact that Aeryn was treated like a "real" baby, even getting a real birth certificate eventually, was very comforting too.

For a slight change from the stupidity that might comfort some of us, I met a 75 year old woman today who still remembers her three babies that miscarried even though she has early stage dementia and so gets confused about some things including the date. She's forgetting everything else but can still tell you about her three "angels."

After reading through all of this, I feel like most of the stupid comments I've received have been pretty mild. My heart goes out to all of you. I wish we had big red buttons to push when appallingly stupid stuff was said. The buttons would connect to a loud buzzer and to buckets of water that would empty over the sayers' heads. Bzzzz. Stupid! *Splash*

After Teddy was diagnosed, but when we still thought he might make it, a hospitalist who hadn't read our chart told us that his lungs looked just fine. When I said, "Really?" in a disbelieving but desperately hopeful tone of voice, she went to look at the MRI results, came back and told us she'd been mistaken. Then she took my blood pressure and N, bless him, insisted that we talk to the specialist himself and told the hospitalist (politely but not nicely) to go away.

I respect the medical profession, but some of the people in it shouldn't be allowed to talk to patients.

Spoke too soon. Last night I got an email from an acquaintance I've know for over five years, whom I am also Facebook friends with. She is on there frequently enough that she should know what the hell is going on. It's not like I'm shy about it. And it has been four months. So the email is asking about my brother-in-law getting kegs for a party on her block (he is a brewer.) and she ends with "So, how's life with three youngins?"
I was FLOORED!
WTF?
I didn't know what to say I was so stunned and I knew I couldn't sleep without some sort of response. So I just sent her a link to my Facebook pictures of Juniper. She hasn't responded yet. I can't believe she never noticed in all this time. I still am astounded by the level of obliviousness in that. Totally SHOCKED!

I think Facebook has been particularly flaky recently in showing up all posts, someone sent me a message the other day saying "I had no idea, i am so sorry" and has clearly not noticed in the entire 2 months, even though all my blog posts go to facebook through network blogs. I figured either FB syphoned me off her feed or she had me hidden - for all i knew me being pregnant might have been hard for her - so i forgave her :)

Doesn't make up for the hurt, of course, but sometimes technology does have a spectacular ability to keep people out of touch when they think they are IN touch!

Although, actually, now wondering if that counts as being one of the spectacularly stupid things people say. (Sorry if so :( )

After losing the first of my twin boys, my husband's aunt said "well, most people only get one anyway." I calmly got up from my bedrest and hung up the phone. Haven't spoken to her since.

I have laughed out loud (tho a bitter cynical laugh) at some of these. HOW CAN PEOPLE BE SO DUMB AND STILL BREATH?

I have quite a few...
1. My colleague coming to me about 2 months after I lost her and saying "Carolyn, I just want to show you what you are missing out on..." then he whipped out photos of his daughters. I was shocked speechless. Couldn't even say anything.

2. A person I met at a wedding asking if this was my first pregnancy. Brief explanation of what had happened. "Oh, will you name your second daughter Sophia as well?". SERIOUSLY?????

3. Another guy - "I heard what happened to you. Awful. But I've been through something even worse - I had testicular cancer and there was a good chance I wouldn't be able to have kids". Um... yes, and now you are in remission and you have TWINS. HOW IS THAT WORSE??????? (and since when was it a competition?)

4. Telesales idiot woman "Congratulations bla bla bla"... me "no, actually my child died"... her:"oh, well never mind, everything happens for a reason. you are young, you can have more kids". How do you know my age? What reason is good enough? FRIKKEN IDIOT.

5. 2 weeks after losing her, a facebook message from a pregnant friend: "Just checking up on you... u ok? all going so well with my pregnancy. I am so so excited, love from me and the little peanut x". VOMIT!!!

ok well now I just want to go smack someone.

On Mother's Day this year a teenage girl that I know came up to me at church and started chatting briefly. She noticed the necklace I was wearing, which has my two babies' initials on it, and a few other charms.

"Does that say 'MOM?!'" she asked suddenly.
"No," I answered, choosing the simplest response.
"Oh!" she said, too loudly. "Cause I was gonna say, <i>You're</i> not a mom!"

Ouch. Ouchy, ouchy, ouch. I went rather pale and excused myself immediately. I wasn't angry; she's a sweet girl, really -- just impulsive and not very tactful. But I had to take some deep breaths before I could talk to anyone else that morning.

caz and vera kate, UNBELIEVABLE. Unbelievable. Good grief, seriously.

Accidental stumbles from well-meaning people are one thing.

Ignorant, self-absorbed and crushingly, devastatingly hurtful - quite, quite another.

Someone told my husband that she knows exactly how I feel about losing Jacob because she had an abortion a few years ago and felt terrible about it afterwards. I'm sure the guilt was terrible, but I didn't chose to terminate my pregnancy. My baby died and then I had to give birth to my dead child.

It's good she didn't say it to me, I doubt that I could have held back.

Dana

In an elaboration on "it happened for a reason" my aunt said "who knows maybe if he had lived he would have grown up to do something really terrible - like murder someone." Yes - of course - quite right - my son's death almost certainly spared the world a serial killer.