I think I must be getting hard to talk to in RL, like maybe I'm draining everyone around me or something. Still struggling with the 'silent friend syndrome' and feeling downright pissed off about it.

I had a not great visit at my doctor's office last week (see my blog for details if you want), and even the nice nurce practitioner I saw in replacement of my doctor pissed me off when she seemed to find the need to tell me that I will feel better at some point (like I guess I knew that, but it just seems like everyone wants to push you out of grief so quickly). Then she suggested I consider talking Zoloft. This annoyed me, too....mostly because I'm only 5 weeks out, and I'm thinking that i'm SUPPOSED to feel sad right now, right? Also, b/c I'm stil pregnant, I'm not willing to take anything yet unless I just can't function. And I AM functioning right now...I eat, I sleep (as good as I can right now), I'm not suicidal, I bathe, I get my son up and around every day, I call people when I'm down. I'm not at ALL opposed to meds and will consider what my options are once I deliver, but not now.


Anyway, then I was dissatisfied with my conversation with my dh this weekend when I cried about our nursery. I feel like he's just so much more 'put together' than I am about the whole thing and it simultaneously makes me envious and enrages me that he could be doing so 'well' while I still have a dead baby in my belly.

Top it off with a conversation with a friend today (I've mentioned her on here tons of times), who's 6 year old died nearly a year ago. I guess she was trying to give me 'tough love' or something, b/c she gave the whole song and dance about having 'Abby to go on for'. And that makes me pissed. It's not like I'm talking about a wish to die...I just feel like eveyrone wants me to be done grieving for Will already. I was telling her that thinking about doing Abby's nursery is so hard b/c it means I have to let myself hope Abby will be ok AND have to make that nursery for just one baby. She told me I needed to 'force myself' to do the nursery b/c it is symbol of moving on. UGH! She is trying to be helpful, I know...but she still has her 6 year old's room exactly the way it was the day he died. Doesn't she understand that, by doing Abby's room without Will, it's similar?

I'm so very sorry to vent here. I think I need to make myself talk to counselor, b/c I'm just so mad right now and no one seems to be able to say the right thing. I guess that means there IS not right thing to say.

How have you all handled this feeling of dissatisfaction with your interactions with others. I just don't feel understood...I know no one can totally understand this place unless they've walked here...but I wish they would stop telling me HOW I should be. And to make matters worse, I' heard from a woman who lost of of her twins like I did and went on to deliver the other one sometime later (she was hooked up to me by the hospital social worker)...I emailed her back a week ago and have YET to hear from her. I didn't realize how badly I need to talk to someone who's been in this place.

Ugh, this self-pity is ridiculous. Any advice? I'm not in a good place at all.

Oh Eve I wish I could say something really super duper positive that would pull you out of this. I'm right in the trenches with you. I just feel depressed, angry, and so so sad, and there are no friends in sight. I think the cold hard truth of it is that this just sucks ass, and its not going to get better until it does -- how's that for indefinite and nothing to hold on to! almost makes me laugh.

But the other truth is that I stand here with you, we're in an abyss, and we miss our babies so badly and all of the hopes and wonderful dreams we had attached to them and the lives we imagined they would lead. It's not wrong to grieve, I'm 6 months out from Henry's death and I'm still so mired down in grief some days I just feel sick with it. People mean well, but they do not understand and never will (and we hope to God they don't). I've gotten to the point where I've accepted that no one here in "real life" land understands, and it depresses me, but these days I take what I can get, and I get alot of "it" from here.

Self pity is not ridiculous btw, it's necessary, a grieving mechanism, something that can actually feel right. My advice to you is silly and simple -- accept that this is the shittiest thing in the world, let it be that, dont worry about what anyone else says. It sounds silly but I give myself small treats sometimes to give myself a tiny tiny pick me up, like eating chocolate, or buying something for me or my living son (like a new movie, or a kaliedescope). It's not a solution by any means, but its a simple joy for me.

Eve - I'm sorry you're not getting better support IRL. When I complain about the things people say some others remind me 'they don't understand and they're trying to do the right thing' which annoys me. I'm the one that lost the baby and I also have to cut others slack when they say ridiculous things.

And I'm sorry you feel like you're being asked to move on from your grief. I saw a psychiatrist for the first time yesterday. My ob referred me because she was worried about how upset I still get in her office (I'm 3 and 1/2 months out). He said that 3 months isn't really long in this situation. He said if I'm functioning (getting out of bed, eating, seeing people, looking after the houes) then that's good enough for now and he doesn't see any need for medication. It made me feel better to hear those things from him.

What Mindy says above about giving herself treats, is what my counsellor has told me as well. And another friend's psychiatrist told her. My friend said to start with it just didn't work at all and felt like a waste of time but eventually she started enjoying the treats.

I posted in reply to another one of your threads about a couple of books and a support group for loss of a twin. Did you see that? I know that reading books about others who had lost babies helped me.

Maddie x

Oh, honey. You are having a rough time, and it hurts so much more when people stop validating your grief and start urging you to 'move on' - there is no moving on, as such. There is only a trying to find a path again and blindly following until you are in the sunlight again. And you are in an especially precarious place because you physically can't move on. You are stuck in limbo-land until the birth of your children of necessity, and there is not another person in your immediate vicinity who can understand that, not matter how much they want to.

I understand where your friend is coming from, but it's ok to let her know that you are so thankful for all her guidance, help and support -but that saying X at this time isn't helping you. I'm sure she will be receptive to hearing you.

You are right about 6 weeks out now, aren't you? That really does seem to be the average for the amount of time people are comfortable allowing you to grieve openly and deeply before they begin shifting uncomfortably and quietly urging you to return to some semblance of yourself as they prefer you.

As for the nurse. . . gah. I'm going to be giving ass-vice and behaving no better than any of your friends, I fear. I know EXACTLY where you are about drugs. I was there for a long time and I needed to be there. I eventually needed them, and that is not to say that you will, but I first needed to come to that decision in my own time. No amount of anyone telling me I should consider or even gently bringing it up as an option sat well with me, and it absolutely enraged me in the end when no one seemed to listen when I said "I am not open to this suggestion now. I may be in the future. Please drop it now." Everyone assuming they knew better than me, and everyone trying to placate and guide me and tell me how to grieve . . . well, I guess you can see why I lost some friendships.

That having been said, you know that you are at a significantly higher risk for post-partum depression, right? I know you do, because of your line of work. A lot of medical personnel are beginning to try and ward off PPD by prescribing safe anti-depressants during the last few weeks of pregnancy, so that they can begin taking effect before the big hormone crashes that occur post-partum. It can ease the transition.

Which is not to say you have to take them (God, I feel like such a heel, please forgive me for doing exactly what you are venting about), and you really do have to make that decision for yourself. You DO sound like you ARE coping well. You are certainly hanging there far better than I would expect. I think their concern for you is After Birth - because the anti-depressants take about a month to really take effect, if you decide later that you aren't coping (and they see that as much more likely in your case), you'll still be stuck for a month feeling badly.

I think seeing someone will be of great benefit to you, to help you through the morass of the situation, and give you a safe place to continue grieving where no one can judge you for how you are feeling or coping.

I hope I haven't just pissed you off and made it worse for you. I felt heartsick to read to your blog, and see that that nurse wouldn't meet your eyes or help you. She ought to know better than that.

Thanks for everyone's words of support. It's just been a really, dark bad day. I got up the courage to call the Perinatal Center (that does all my level II u/s) and talk to the manager there (on the suggestion of the grief counselor) about our difficulty with the u/s tech we've had the past two times (she refuses to acknowledge our loss and won't tell me when she is scanning him). It was not a good experience. The manager was a total bitch, pardon my cursing. I just can't believe how rude people can be!

Sorry for further venting. I'm just in a sucky place and not sure how to get out of it. I tried to call the counseling center I was referred to...of course they weren't there (I left a message). I tried to call the grief counselor at the hospital and get in with her this week...wouldn't you know she's on vacation??????

Mindy...I appreciate your honesty. I have this tendency, when I feel the world is 'wrong' to try to make it right. Maybe this babyloss-silence is impossible to make right. Maybe I just need to accept it.

Maddie...I'm so glad you are getting support for yourself. I would tell a client exactly what your psychiatrist said, that level of functioning is the key to determining whether a medication is absolutely necessary (although it can be helpful even when not completely 'necessary') or not. Thanks for your support.

Eliza...you did not make me upset. I totally get the risk I have for PPD...and you're right that SSRIs take about a month for full effectiveness (but generally you notice a nice uplift in two weeks), but I think I need time to disgest this information with my doctor. I truly feel if I could get out and about more, spend more time with supportive friends, talk to a counselor, that those things would help me with this low feeling. I have been clinically depressed in the past (going through infertility and also had a serious depressive reaction to a medication I took for migraines). I don't feel that way right now, I just feel...sad.

I do so appreciate your honesty and will talk to my doctor maybe about considering starting a med toward the end of pregnancy.

I feel like I don't have enough time to grieve Will before preparing my heart for Abby. I know it makes me sound ungrateful...I don't mean to at all. Ugh, I'm so mixed up.

It's funny what you say about 6 weeks Eliza. After 6 weeks I suddenly started getting emails knowing if I wanted to come out for lunch etc from different friends. And I so wasn't anywhere near that by then - I'm starting to be now but back then I felt really awful all the time. I think 4 weeks after was when I felt the worst so I wasn't far from there at 6 weeks.

It just made me think 'you people just really don't get this at all'.

I think the thing that bothers you about the nurse is that there is a level of dismissiveness of grief to simply throw meds at it. Meds won't fix the hole in your heart and to urge onto them, even when you are functioning well (and as you said, simply sad), feels like yet another push towards 'hide the grief in the closet, time be over it, paste on a smile now' that seems to be coming at you from all directions.

AD's won't make everything better. They aren't a magic pill that restores your son to the living once again, and pushing them at you drives home that people don't understand.

You are in a unique situation of emotions. Trying to be brave and strong and welcoming and open and hopeful for the living child to be born and trying to mourn for the dead one to be born.

I know that I went through a period of time where I felt I didn't have enough time to mourn Gabe. For me, it was returning to work, which was a signal of moving forward and resuming life again, and I was not ready. Left to my own devices, I've no idea when I might have been ready. I was so afraid that that moment signified stepping beyond Gabriel and having to let him go all over again and that going back to work meant the end of grieving him.

And it wasn't so. I continued to grieve him, though I did turn a corner in my grief about that time. It was more accepting and less active.

I think there is a trigger for most of us baby-lost where it seems we are being forced to let go and that letting go feels like letting our loved ones go, all over again. For you, it seems to be Abby's birth. Like you have to shunt Will aside completely then, because Abby will be in flesh and blood and have her own demands and needs. And it is true that Will and your mourning him will take a back seat for a bit, but you don't have to let go of him then. You don't have to see that as a line in the sand. And even if you did see it that way, grief can't be turned off and on like that.

As you are finding with the nursery, having to adjust from two to one is a hard thing and that will continue and you will have reminders throughout Abby's growing up of how there should have been two.

And that's ok.

Thanks for your understanding words, Eliza.

Eve, I've been keeping up with your blog and I am sorry about all the stupid people you have to deal with. I can't believe the manager was a bitch to you, how horrible. I recently went through a couple of weeks of all consuming rage. I was so angry at the way the medical people here treated us that I couldn't see anything else. I think now that a good part of that anger was simply grief, but I didn't allow myself to express it for fear of scaring people.

My counselor had a good rule - she said I had to get the anger out and there were only three rules:

Don't do anything to hurt another living thing
Don't do anything to hurt yourself
Don't do anything that will get you arrested

It made me laugh and I took her advice and destroyed some things around my house. I know you can't get around much but I am going to make myself a dammit doll (google it if you don't know what it is) and whack the hell out of it whenever someone says something stupid. I can send you one if you can't make one yourself. I wish so much that we could make things easier for you. Have you looked into SHARE? They probably have a local support group and I bet you could get someone on the phone during weeks like this when you can't get into the grief counselor. The website is nationalshare.org. Don't apologize for venting - that's what we are here for.

Thanks Jen for your kind words and suggestions. I'm sure that this anger is absolutely grief. There are people who are idiots and insensitive and people who aren't....I know that, it just feels so unfair that I have to deal wtih the idiots right now when I already feel I've been given the short end of the stick.

I feel much better today. It's almost hard to tolerate such intense anger. I feel like I'm going to burst into flames! I like your counselor's rules!! Ironically, there IS a local Share group right near my house...and it happens that two of my clients attend (as I'm a therapist) for their own pregnancy loss. So scratch that...it's not fair to them that I would attend. But i'm looking into some support groups nearer my hospital that go to, and I have an appnt with a counselor next week.

I think the best way that I get anger out is to just tak and talk to someone who will nod in acceptance and agree that I have a 'right' to be angry. I felt so much better after I had a nice venting talk with my dh last night. I'm so lucky he's such a great guy...I'm sure he has no idea what to do or say around me these days.


Anger is pretty to see or to show others...but it's certainly a part of this, huh?

Eve - I'm not trying to be pushy so ignore me if it doesn't help. The reason I asked about SHARE is that the coordinator here gave me her cell number and told me to call her anytime. I was thinking that you may be able to find someone there that would do the same. Have you thought about calling the contact instead of going to a meeting? Like I said, I'm not trying to be pushy, I just really wanted to help you and I'm too far away to give you a hug and share a good cry (or scream). By the way - if you need someone to talk to you can email me on my blog and get my cell number. I know you don't know me from Adam but it really sucks to feel all alone in such a horrible time.